Can you waterproof a wooden vivarium with spray foam?

[swords]

I've been thinking about building a wall sized vivarium in a closet that I emptied out and pulled the old bi-fold doors off of. The viv would be 6 ft Long x 3-4 feet High the closet is 26 inches deep so it would be a nice size vivarium to dedicate to epiphytes on branches and the side walls. However, the enclosure will have to be built basically where it will stand as only a 36" x 18 aquarium can make it through the hall/doorway to this room. I am real handy with wood construction but never fooled with glass or acrylic except to make lids for my old chambers so I would like to use melamine.

Anyway, my question is If I built a melamine chamber, would I be able to cover the entire inside of the chamber (back, both sides, bottom & inside front below the window) with several layers of the Good Stuff spray foam as a way to add a textured/sculpted waterproofed interior with a water basin in the bottom for a dripwall pump/false bottom or will the foam leak and sweat water through and rot the wood? This way the entire inside surface could be covered with moss/climbing plants if the foam will repel water or hold it at it's surface. The only non-planted areas would be the lid glass and sliding front glass.

Any input would be appreciated!

[Tindomul]

I beleive the foam will be good at waterproofing your project, but to be on the safe side I would do some research to find other products that are available to make wood water proof. I don't recall what products but I know that they exist and that wooden vivariums have been built using these products. A product to protect the wood from water damage and to keep the water from leaking out. Good luck and let us know what you find.

[Landon]

I dont think the spray foam will actually seal the wood. Water cn seep behind/through it without any problem. I would reccomend a full coverage of silicone or a two part epoxy.

I built a plywwod vivarium a while back and documented the process fairly well. You can also check out garf.org for a very detailed construction process of building a large plywood fish tank. Even though you may not be keeping fish, you want to go about the contruction the same way.

Heres a link to the build thread on the tank I built.
Viv from scratch - Vivarium Forums

And a link to garf's site. Youll have to look into the DiY pages with the links on the left.
Geothermal Aquaculture Research Foundation Home Page

[swords]

Landon, unfortunately the Viv from scrach link won't load up for me, just the banner from the vivarium forum.

If I'm covering the top of the foam with a coat of silicone & coco-fiber would it still need something under the foam? The top coat woudn't be enough to "seal the foam". Except I guess for when I pin plants to it, that would puncture the surface silicone...

How terrible are the fumes to waterproof the wood using epoxy? I've asked around a bit on fiberglassing & epoxy but my uncle said it was really bad smelling anytime he used fiberglass and epoxies. A big stink won't work for me cos this will have to be in the Apt with me and the cats while being built cos it won't be able to be brought in afterwards due to hall/doorways. I tried saving my old highland Nepenthes terrarium I built in the room when I remodeled but it wouldn't fit out the door (4 ft L x 4 ft H x 2 ft W ). It wasn't waterproofed but where it leaked in the left front corner I kept a bucket - ghetto plant nut!

Can anyone tell me about the silicone, what kind is sold liberally enough that you can paint it inside a big box? I see 5 oz tubes at the hardware store but you'd need a truckload of those to do a huge box. I've made model kit/action figure molds with GI-1000 silicone it didn't have any smell hardly at all but that was for making part molds and not very spreadable.

[Ross]

I'm no expert on this type of project, but wood and finishes I know. Yes the fiberglas will be noxious in the apartment, even in small amounts. But so will high-grade silicone. Any chance you could build a slide-in liner outdoors out of resin and fiberglas and after it has cured, bring it in and fit it to the unit? Another option might be the flat plastic sheets they line tub encloseres with. They are basically ABS plastic and could be mounted directly to wood with "liquid nails". Seal the corners with silicone and that should be waterproof. It is for bath tubs and showers. Then you can foam over the plastic with no worry of water getting through.

If you are really paranoid (like I tend to be) then instead of wood, use the 3'x5' sheets of concrete material used to make tub surrounds. If moisture does get through (unlikely if you use the sheet plastic) it won't rot. My idea is keep the waterproofing next to the wood - it will be more secure and more impervious that way and you won't have to swet mounting the 'chids. Could you keep a photo log for those of us who might choose to replicate this adventure?

[swords]

Hey Ross, adventurous minds think alike I guess, that fiberglass tub surround is what I had made my highland Nepenthes chamber with but instead of aquarium silicone to seal it I had used tub caulking. Back then I figured it was the same stuff they just charged more for the "silicone". That worked OK for a year or so but after a few years it started to crack and let loose and then the one corner started to drip. Come to think of it I also did have the chambers wood frame inside the tub wall surround chamber (duh?). I would do it differently now 7 years later with the wood frame outside! Anyhow, do you think the aquarium silicone would be "in it for the long haul" and not eventually let loose like the caulking did?

Also, one new idea of mine was to get the largest & shallowest plastic storage bin I can find (the kind that slide under your bed). That bin could make up the actual waterproof, water catchment area. Then the background foam would fill in around and above and in front of the bin sort of funneling the water down to the plastic storage bin via gravity. You wouldn't be able to see into the water except from above but that's not a problem since there's nothing in there but a pump and plants and the false bottom substrate level for dimmer light moisture loving plants. I'll try and whip up a sketch to show what I'm trying to describe...

[Ross]

Originally Posted by swords

Anyhow, do you think the aquarium silicone would be "in it for the long haul" and not eventually let loose like the caulking did?

Probably. Actually I would use the construction grade stuff the bathroom renovators use (not sure which grade - Home Depot should know) But in a pinch, the aquarium stuff should definitely work - think about it - the glass is held together with it! Caulking is definitely a no-no! Won't go the long haul.

I like the idea of the pan in the bottom since it's pretty-much impervious. Man, I really want to see the assembly photos on this bad-boy!

[swords]

Had a bad night on my machine at work so I didn't get my sketch done, but soon...

I've gotta try and figure what kinda lighting to use.

edit: moved my lighting question to a new post.

[Landon]

The only silicone I know if is the tube type :? You could try and get some from another source, but the tubbes are fairly easy to spread out so it can be flattened. On a large display, it would take a LOT of tubes though. I like this plastic idea and may even consider it if I do any more custom vivs.

Do you ever plan on keeping any animals in your viv? If you do I would steer clear of the bathroom grade silicones as they have mold inhibitors which can be harmful to frogs and the like. The door and window is just as good and lasts a long time. I prefer the GE II brand and it has been really good to me over the years. You can get it in quite a few different colors which are available at Lowes and HD, so you dont have to order to get a selection.

As far as the epoxy, I wouldt do it inside unless youve got a very well ventilated area. You would want to keep your aninmals from, getting into it for a while too, as it is sticky and very messy while its curing. If you can get away wihtout having to coat the entire terrarium (like using plastic) I would. Silicone and epoxy will be equal as far as fumes go, so I would do as little as possible while still keeping it water tight.

[malli252]

Hey Swords,
Why don't you use a marine grade enamel instead? I work at a paint store and the one we sell is oil based, so it's still stinky, but nothing like epoxy. Hopefully you find something that'll work out well for yah!

Rob