Putting together first natural style terrarium/viv - Orchid Board

swords · #1 08-04-2007, 12:22 AM

Hello,

I've just tonight picked up a 56G cube aquarium (30 L x 24 H x 18W). I want to decorate it in the european style with everything planted naturally and orchids mounted on the walls and driftwood. It looks nice sitting as an aquarium but I kinda like it standing on end, this would give me the possibility of getting a second one of the same size when the shops gets another in and having them side by side on the same stand (which I have not yet built).

I have a few questions before I try modifying this tank. Is it safe to cut out the middle brace on the top of the tank since I won't be filling it with water? I'd hate to have a 2" black strip in front of the viewing area. The shop guy said it would be ok but I thought I'd ask if you guys think it's ok and actually how to cut it off?

I will make a false bottom with the lighting grid/egg crate but I'm wondering what I should use for "soil" since it will house mostly orchids and carnivorous plants but some small exotics that can creep in here and there. In my mind I could use a blend of medium orchid bark and some coco fiber mixed in with a topping of living sphagnum moss but will that "breathe" enough so as not to become stagnant and anoxic like a terrarium attempt of mine did years ago?

One guy on this site made a wall of dart frog terrariums and I can't tell what he used for soil but it looks like real soil where the moss is not growing, like that look but know real soil get's nasty in a warm terrarium any ideas?

Also, when growing in planted terarria like this (without animals) how much fertilizing should be done? I see a lot of websites saying to let the frogs fertilize the tank but I won't have frogs for some time, if ever.

I see that a lot of people are using good stuff foam covered in silicone and coco fiber. This looks very good but does it have any advantages over siliconing cork bark sheets to the back? Do the orchids and clmbers root easier on the foam? Does the foam/fiber hold more water at the roots to absorb than cork does? Does the foam/fiber last longer than cork does? I'd like to hear what backgrounds you guys use and why.

I'd appreciate any input you folks may have on the first of my million questions!

Ross · #2 08-04-2007, 08:03 PM

Not sure why you haven't gotten an answer yet, but I'll respond just to "top" the thread. I don't have anything to contribute however.

swords · #3 08-05-2007, 05:28 PM

I guess I'm just one of those forum killers... happens every forum I go to.

shakkai · #4 08-05-2007, 05:52 PM

Swords, not at all! I guess its just a complex question, and there are probably as many answers as there are people who have put together a setup like this.

I didn't respond to this before, as I'm not sure how much I can add... I've done a semi-natural 'fish tank' - nothing fancy at all, in fact, as simply as I could possibly make it!

I have tried to avoid using bark - as you point out, it decomposes quite quickly and replacing it every year is difficult (or nigh on impossible without disturbing everything). I have used a combination of cocoa shell pieces with moss on top. I have also put a corner of glass chippings in (green coloured ones are nice) to help improve humidity.

Are you planning to grow terrestrial orchids?

My aquarium didn't have a middle brace, so I can't help you there... though I would agree that since its not going to hold gallons of water, it is safe to remove it.

I also haven't done the foam/silicone thing... I don't have anything along the sides of mine, as it is using natural light from the window it sits in front of. I do, however, hang plants mounted on cork or tree fern along the sides (hooked over the top).

Ross · #5 08-05-2007, 06:09 PM

Also, one of our Gurus (Tindo) is on vacation or travelling, or something, so he may join in here later. Just be patient and we'll keep moving this thread to the top till someone joins in. We have several here who could offer some sort of advice.

Henke · #6 08-05-2007, 06:53 PM

...changing an aquarium into a vivarium. As I am an noob in this area, don't take the setup for something that will work. But I have good faith.....

I'm using a tank thats 55 cm * 140 cm and 70 cm deep. I came across the tank over the net and didn't think to much of the size of it.

I am using Epi-Web as the background material. It is made of recycled PET bottles and should be proven good to grow orchids in, atleast the ones that like to be mounted.

I have a false bottom and on top of the floor i placed a sheet of plastic that let through water. Its originally used to prevent veed growing in rabates. On top of that I got pine. The sheet of plastic I hope will prevent that to much dirt enter the water. All of the bottom is filled with water about 3 cm high.

The water is used for watering the plants in 2 ways. A hose with a number of holes is mounted ontop of the Epi-Web letting the water flow down the epi-web. It holds the water foor the roots.
A second hose with tiny sprinklers is used to keep the surface of the pine wet and watering the moss and fern on the bottom.

3 Pce's of hardwood roots, mangrove, is givving the setup some depth. They will hold moss and ferna nd maybe some orchids.

It is lighten with 4 pce T8 36w daylight floroucent. It might be that it is a bit to low for lighting but luckaly, the bottom is only 55 cm from the top where the lights are placed.

Will this work, well time will tell.

I'll add some pictures later on so you may see whats done, if You like.

And as it's said.
It's not the goal tat matters, the journey is half of the pleasure....

PS.

A link to Epi-Web pages here Epiweb
DS

swords · #7 08-06-2007, 01:49 AM

Thanks for some input folks! Was begining to think my screen name had the plague since I was asking similar questions and no one was responding on several boards! It might be my penchant to ramble on for days...

Epiweb looks interesting but it might run into high $ amounts for the amount of stuff I'd need. Plus if I build a new wall sized epiphyte chamber I've been thinking about after visiting the hardware store I'd need a real ton of it.

Does anyone know about the waterproofing or water absorbing abilities of the good stuff spray foam? One thought I had would be to spray it on thin, let that dry and then spray another coat which I would shape it with a real stone before the next coat sets up so it would have cool depressions and natural chaotic texture.

Most any orchids I get will be small mountable ones that I can put on twigs or the side walls, I may plant a couple slipper orchids in the soil portion (thus the false bottom), such as paph bellatullum and dayanum. I had my fascination with giant plants when I grew Nepenthes for years in this apartment. I grew several six foot diameter plants and tons of other not quite that big Neps but eventually had to get rid of them all when my dad got sick and I didn't have the time to properly care for the plants. Now with the restart of my botanical mania I'm limiting myself to orchids & other plants at 12" or smaller.

entropy82 · #8 01-24-2009, 08:10 PM

swords - imho i would stick with materials that do not degrade. primeagra (pa), epiweb, perlite, sand, diatomiceous earth (de). pa, perlite, sand and de would help with terrestrials, while epiweb could be used with mounts, walls, vines, etc. using these materials will help with a number of things, in no order - maintainence, decomposition, repotting, disease control, general repairs, adding more epiweb mounts/walls to accomondate growth. it would allow you to more easily regulate ph, tds, ppm, ec/cf, etc. in a pool area that you will need for the frogs. you should now start considering some other accessories like lights, ventilation, misting systems, electrical timers.

what are you making this out of? acrylic, glass, adobe?
you will need to consider glues/solvents needed for bonding different substances. you'll need air pump, airstones, foggers, tubing for all those goodies. if you have money, then consider supplementing co2.

i have built some vivariums/terrariums but never specifically for orchids. the orchid hobby is relatively new to me but i am already designing my own orchid only vivarium using these principals.

just my two cents.

RSS · #9 01-25-2009, 02:29 AM

I may be able to help a little with the substrate.

If your going to plant carnivourous plants into the substrate, put a very small layer (maybe 1/16-1/8") of peat down, then put the substate on the top. It will help out of the CPs alot, PH and such. With CPs in there you will want to watch your fertilizing or you will kill off the CPs. The Utric's I have growing in the fertiziled mud are growing 1/10 the speed of anything else and the leaf sizes are 1/20. So tiny!

I've used prima-agra with good results, doesn't look that natural thou, but from a functional point of view it does the job. Another problem with this stuff, its round

. So you won't have a flat or sloping area. Although you could cover the prima-agra with a sheet of Epi-web, that would look alot better and give you a slope or flat area....must remember this when I order from First Rays next......Wonder if they would cut me an odd 5 sided piece....

I've also used a pond mud I picked up in Japan some years back. It works perfectly in every aspect. So you might want to check out pond muds/soils.

If you have some extra money there is always ADA Aquasoil, its pricey but works wonders, and won't degrade. I've had nothing but good results with this stuff too.

Don't forget to check out the planted aquarium forums for substate idea's, anything they are using should work well for what you want. After all its intended to be submerged.

I would stay away from any substrate that will decay fast, like bark and such, the bottom will stay wet almost constantly and thus decay very fast.

I've had mixed results with using Epi-web as a background, it is clearly not its intended use. Epi-web really needs to get a dip in water to shine, and even with a pump pushing water into the top, the results are still meh. It just does not work its magic unless its submerged. Stuff is growing into it but the glass is getting covered faster.

On the live sphagnum....it looks nice and alot of people say good things about it, but it grows fast in proper conditions and will cover your plants if you let it. I've had it cover african violets before.....

Three last random thoughts, lights are cheaper per square inch when purchased in 48" strips, T5HO lights are your friend, and don't forget about emersed aquatic plants!

dravenxavier · #10 01-25-2009, 09:22 AM

I've done several of these terrariums, and hopefully I can give some input.

Yes, anything that you use as a substrate will degrade quickly. I've tried several mixes, and I've usually had good luck with growing mosses, ferns, and bromeliads in the ground up coconut soils (i.e. Eco-Earth sold as reptile bedding). If I were doing carnivores in there, I would probably move to more of a peat/tree fern fiber mix, to keep it airy. I'd imagine you can grow plenty of other things in that mix, too.

As for the background, the foam works alright. Don't bother trying to push the rock into it to get shapes, because as the foam expands, it won't matter. wait until it expands, and then tear at it with your fingers...you'll get plenty of variety and random changes in the background that way. It works well, but unless you have a misting system, it does like to dry rather quickly on me. If you don't like the epi-web, you can also look into tree fern panels for the back. Cork bark also works well, just try to keep it from the water line. If you let it dry between sprayings, it should last quite a few years.

And yes, you can remove that center brace. I usually do it with a Dremel.