A Few Planted Ripariums

[hydrophyte]

Thanks very much Andrew. I haven't been back here in some time, but I had a few updates so I thought that I would look for this thread again.

I have read about the wide variety of orchids that can be grown in "semi-hydroponic" conditions, however, I have mainly tried to use orchids that are actually associated with wet, marginal aquatc habitats in nature, because these support a somewhat more authentic riparium layout.

I have had mixed success. Thus far I have tried a few different Bletilla varieties, that Spiranthes and a phrag hybrid. The phrag grew in the tank (that same 65G) for a while, but then started to decline. I don't know what happened to it, but I repotted it and still have it alive. I have found it difficult to keep those orchids with dormancy requirements. I lost that Spiranthes and several of the various Bletilla, although I do still have some Bletilla that is just now beginning to again break dormancy. I might try to get these to grow again in one of my ripariums. I'd like to try again with some Phragmepedium, and try to better control their cultural conditions. I recently learned of a species that looks especially good, P. pearcei. Does anyone know where I might find this one?

Anyway, here are a couple of picture updates for my 50-gallon setup.

Unlike most of the riparium setups that I have put together, I elected to fill this tank with water most of the way, leaving much of the plant foliage to grow up and out.



Here's another view.



I have some pretty cool plants and fish in there. I should come back with a list and explanation of what I included in the tank.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

If I may make a suggestion...

In my experience, Bletillas don't grow in such wet habitats even when they've broken dormancy.

Neither does Spiranthes spp. Spiranthes are mostly found in open fields on the edges of deciduous forests.

Bletillas can be found on forest margins or on the forest floor. Occasionally they're found on roadside cliffs. It is not only seasonally dry, it is a drier environment than the riparian zones that you're trying to recreate.

I believe that the mixed results you're getting from the Phragmipedium is because, while they like to grow where there is plenty of water, some of them (depending on the species) are lithophytes of seepage or drip zones, not true terrestrials. Feel free to have a discussion about this.

While I understand that your endeavors to create a riparium featuring orchids not coming to fruition is somewhat frustrating. In my humblest opinion, you must obey nature.

I think it would be an awesome set up. You've shown quite some skill to set up such beautiful displays.

My recommendation is to try growing bog type species such as Pogonia or Calopogon.

Maybe even river-side growing species such as the evergreen Disas or Stenoglottis.

If you have a tank that is large enough to accommodate this species, Spathoglottis plicata will do great in a riparian type set-up. They grow in riparian zones in the wild. I know. I've personally seen these in the wild where they've naturalized themselves in the Caribbean islands. They attach themselves onto rocks or in between rock crevices where water is readily available, in my specific case, the rocks were from a waterfall that had partially collapsed and the rocks were on top of running water from the waterfall.

There are even orchids that grow in the water of swamps! Yeah, you heard correctly! They grow in the damn water!

I'll name a couple...

1. Cleisocentron merrillianum
2. Papilionanthe hookerianum

I know Cleisocentron merrillianum grows in water because after failing with trying to grow it mounted, I've decided to put it in a glass cube with water. And the freakin' thing responded positively!

The reason for this ballsy attempt is because I just found out a month ago, that Papilionanthe hookerianum grows in a swamp amongst reeds! Sometimes they're partially submerged in water. Since Cleisocentron merrillianum has a similar physical morphology, and it has always been touted as an orchid that needs lots of water to survive, I made the connection and took a risk. It paid off!

There is concrete evidence that Papilionanthe hookerianum grows in such a manner. Go onto Flickr and do a search. You'll most likely pull up a guy that goes by "sarawaklens". He has loads of pics of Papilionanthe hookerianum in the wild! And let me tell you something - THAT is WILD!!!

[hydrophyte]

This is great information. I have a few observations and questions to add and I'll come back with another post.

One thing that I will add quick is that I have encountered many references to Spiranthes spp. occurring as wetland plants. I seem to remember observing some down in Florida a number of years ago out in a marshy prairie area. That one that I had (that I killed) looked pretty good while I had it in the fishtank and most definitely had some root development inside the planter cup.

That Cleisocentron and the Papilionanthe sound like fantastic plants. I wonder if there is any hope of finding them here in the US.

[hydrophyte]

King_of_orchid_growing Thanks again for all of this information. I'd like to write out a list here with a few additional observations and questions for these plants that you mentioned:

1. Spathoglottis plicata--I have seen these used as landscaping plants in Miami, but the specimens that I saw were too large to grow in a fish tank. I remember wondering if those landscape plants could be grow as marginals--they have that look about them. Are there any smaller cultivars or smaller similar species in cultivation?
2. Bletilla--as for Spiranthes, I have run into quite a few references to growing these as pond marginals. I once saw them for sale this way and the plants were plenty wet but looked happy enough. However they might not be such a good choice for this idea because of their winter dormancy requirements.
3. Pogonia or Calopogon--I believe that we have species of both of these native here in the Northern US. I think I remember seeing Pogonia growing almost right in the water in a bog. I would imagine these plants to be too strongly seasonal and requiring a cold winter dormancy, but I just did a quick search and found that there are species for both genera tat extend as far south as the West Indies. Any thoughts?
4. Disa or Stenoglottis--I remember looking into Disa a while back and it seemed they were also strongly seasonal, but you mention that there are "evergreen" species among these. Do you know any more about these? I also seem to recall that the Disa most available in cultivation gets to be rather tall.
5. Cleisocentron merrillianum and Papilionanthe hookerianum--these are intriguing. Do you have any suggestions for sources?
6. Phragmipedium--I agree that most of these are probably best suited to something more like wet hydroculture and will languish if roots are kept permanently below the water level. I really hope to try out P. pearcei because it sounds as though this one does occur in truly wet situations in nature. Furthermore, it has neater, more attractive foliage and is much smaller than most other phrags. It could be a real good candidate for this application, but the couple of sources that I have encountered are selling them for >$50 each. Maybe by looking around I can find a more economical offering.

[hydrophyte]

I have just a quick additional observation here. Ecuagenera apparently has P. pearcei, for just $15.

Phragmipedium pearcei - Ecuagenera

[hydrophyte]

Look what I found!

Approved Conservation Advice for Spathoglottis plicata

I quote here what that reference says about habitat:

In Australia, it grows in lowland regions or low ranges, in or close to swamps, in seasonally inundated areas and in moist, grassy patches close to streams, in Melaleuca swamp forest and gallery closed forest

I wonder if there are any smaller cultivars out there(?).

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

King_of_orchid_growing Thanks again for all of this information. I'd like to write out a list here with a few additional observations and questions for these plants that you mentioned:

Alright, I'll do my best.

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

Spathoglottis plicata--I have seen these used as landscaping plants in Miami, but the specimens that I saw were too large to grow in a fish tank. I remember wondering if those landscape plants could be grow as marginals--they have that look about them. Are there any smaller cultivars or smaller similar species in cultivation?

As far as I know, there aren't any. I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

Bletilla--as for Spiranthes, I have run into quite a few references to growing these as pond marginals. I once saw them for sale this way and the plants were plenty wet but looked happy enough. However they might not be such a good choice for this idea because of their winter dormancy requirements.

They might have been temporary displays. Unless you know the inner workings of the place that sells them, I wouldn't take the observation at face value.

I am successfully growing Bletilla striata, so I can tell you right now, they will rot if they get wet during dormancy. I have also seen in-situ shots of these plants online, I can't pull them up right now because of issues with the internet, but try and look for them.

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

Pogonia or Calopogon--I believe that we have species of both of these native here in the Northern US. I think I remember seeing Pogonia growing almost right in the water in a bog. I would imagine these plants to be too strongly seasonal and requiring a cold winter dormancy, but I just did a quick search and found that there are species for both genera tat extend as far south as the West Indies. Any thoughts?

I wasn't aware that Pogonia and Calopogon extended that far down into the tropics. I wouldn't be surprised either.

These are for certain native to the US. However, I have limited experience with Calopogon as I only purchased seedlings in dormancy. But from what I gather, they don't like to be bone dry. Check with someone who has more extensive experience with them.

However, I am 100% certain they're bog plants.

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

Disa or Stenoglottis--I remember looking into Disa a while back and it seemed they were also strongly seasonal, but you mention that there are "evergreen" species among these. Do you know any more about these? I also seem to recall that the Disa most available in cultivation gets to be rather tall.

I will speak more about Disas as I have actual hands on experience with them.

If you're interested in Disa uniflora and it's hybrids, then yes, they are fairly good sized plants that reach about a meter in height from what I understand. I haven't yet purchased one, so I don't actually know how large they get. They do not go deciduous nor do they have a need to dry out. It only gets drier during the cooler months, but they should never dry out. In nature they are always found along streams or rivers, on cliffs near waterfalls, drip zones and seepages.

Now, I do actually own some Disa tripetaloides. These are miniature "evergreen" Disas. The largest plants that I own are not bigger than 2" or 2 1/2" in diameter and the plant itself is no taller than 1/2" (not including the spike). The habitat for this species is usually the sandy riverbanks of streams or rivers. This species is easy to grow if you're growing them right. Again, they don't go deciduous, and they should never, ever dry out. They should only dry out for no more than 1/2 a day or they stress out.

The roots of stream-side Disas probably shouldn't be submerged in water at all.

Unfortunately Disas have a very bad reputation for being "difficult" to grow. I've found this statement to be the contrary.

Stenoglottis appears to grow along sandy riverbanks as well from what I understand. And if this is the case, they're cake.

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

Cleisocentron merrillianum and Papilionanthe hookerianum--these are intriguing. Do you have any suggestions for sources?

I don't have any text sources. But if you do a search on Flickr for Papilionanthe hookerianum you'll find in-situ photos. Gather what you may out of it, I'm still trying to make sense of it. If you must, try contacting a guy named "sarawaklens" on Flickr about details regarding how this plant grows in the wild.

The Cleisocentron merrillianum is by far the most frustrating to find actual information and in-situ photos of. As a result, this plant wouldn't be the first plant I'd suggest anybody to grow.

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

Phragmipedium--I agree that most of these are probably best suited to something more like wet hydroculture and will languish if roots are kept permanently below the water level. I really hope to try out P. pearcei because it sounds as though this one does occur in truly wet situations in nature. Furthermore, it has neater, more attractive foliage and is much smaller than most other phrags. It could be a real good candidate for this application, but the couple of sources that I have encountered are selling them for >$50 each. Maybe by looking around I can find a more economical offering. [/LIST]

Phrags in general are not my field of expertise, but I do know that many are lithophytes that grow in wet situations.

Unfortunately, Phrags are usually around $50.

[hydrophyte]

Hey thanks a million again this is great information.

So you would say that Disa tripetaloides should not be grown with roots below water, and the same is true for Stenoglottis?

Google returned a couple of auction results for Papilionanthe hookerianum, but I did look to see how the sellers might be. Did you mention how tall that plant grows?

I saw one offering of a Spathoglottis cultivar called 'Dwarf Pink' in an online catalog, but there was not any description really.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

Hey thanks a million again this is great information.

No problem.

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

So you would say that Disa tripetaloides should not be grown with roots below water, and the same is true for Stenoglottis?

Yes, I wouldn't risk submerging the roots of Disa tripetaloides or any Stenoglottis species in water. But I think they will fit in quite well with what you're trying to do.

I understand you're in a fairly warm area of the US, and that everywhere you look on the internet, it says they like it cool. But it gets pretty warm here in the summers and my Disa tripetaloides are fine. Then, of course, I grow my Disa tripetaloides outdoors in a clay pot on a porch that recieves partial sun.

Disa tripetaloides should be grown in sand btw.

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

Google returned a couple of auction results for Papilionanthe hookerianum, but I did look to see how the sellers might be. Did you mention how tall that plant grows?

No, I didn't mention how large this plant gets. It does get plenty large. Probably too large for your intentions (if I'm not mistaken, it can get to be 5' to 6' tall or maybe taller). But it'll take it ages for it to reach that height.

Originally Posted by hydrophyte

I saw one offering of a Spathoglottis cultivar called 'Dwarf Pink' in an online catalog, but there was not any description really.

I understand if you're cautious about believing the moniker "Dwarf" in the cultivar name of this particular plant.

I'd also be weary of that cultivar name in it's accurate description of how small or large this plant gets.

"Dwarf" to me seems like a relative term in this situation. After all, Spathoglottis plicata gets to be about 3' tall, with about a 2' - 3' leaf span.

[hydrophyte]

What do you think of potting a Disa in a riparium planter, then positioning it in the aquarium so that just the base is down in the water? Here is what those planters look like.



The top of the cup is about 3" across and there are holes down in the bottom through which water can wick up in the planter media.

This joint has flask-sized Disa for pretty cheap:

Gore Orchid Conservatory - Disa Catalog

They list both D. tripetaloides and D. auratea, but apparently they are both sold out at the moment.