Help needed before taking the decision of buying/building a terrarium/vivarium - Orchid Board

kavanaru · #1 07-09-2008, 07:50 PM

Since long ago, I have been playing with the idea of having a vivarium in my flat. After reading several threads here and watching so many pictures of so many great terraria/vivaria here, I have seriously started to play with the idea to buy/build one for my orchid (I am just looking for a new excuse in order to buy more minis with high humidity needs

). First I thought of the possibility of going for a cool/cold box, but it seems to be more complicated than what I want... so, I decided that if, it would be a warm one (I have an average temp in my apartment of 70-80F, and so far I have understood, the temp in the box would be slightly above it)

then I thought of making it simpel and buying a wardian case, but to be honest I do not like the look of them. This is what I have found in switzerland (sorry, only in german, but you can see the pics) Terrarientechnik - Orchidarium Orchidarium, 70x40x95 cm, zzgl Lichthaube (13 cm) OV01 ...but, as far as I know myself, 27 x 16 x 37 inches would qquickly become small, and if we keep in mind I would have to pay $1500 for it... hhhmmm...

so, I jumped on the next option: buying a terrarium and convert it into a nice vivarium. the candidate: Terrarientechnik - Standard Terrarium 120x60x100 LTST12060100 47 x 24 x 40 seems to be more realistic for my plans (and would match better the spot where it would be place)

so, here my question:

what exactly would I need in order to have it working and being suitable for orchids?

2 ventilator: one blowing in and one blowing out? would that be enough or would it be necessary to add two more?
misting system or air fogger? if Fogger, what are the best options?
T5 tubes (2 4000 and 2 6000K)? or would it be enough with one of each? can they be placed directly on top of the terrarium or would need to be suspended? what would be the range of temps expected in the terrarium with both option?
How do you fertilize your plants?
How long can you leave the terrarium unattended, while on holidays?
Is there any especific points I should put especial attention to, which I have forgotten to mention aboce?

I know these are so many questions at once, but is all what went through my head when thinking about this project...

kavanaru · #2 07-12-2008, 12:52 PM

nothing?

Ross · #3 07-12-2008, 08:57 PM

I've been gone from computer for a while, Ramon, or I would have jumped on this one!

There have been several posts (mostly from members in your area) who have made their own tank. Your climate suggests that with proper ventilation to the outside (maybe through a window) you can achieve the really low temps that cool growers love. I am in envy of the chance you have to "pull this off".

Here are some thoughts:

1) Light will be the "bad guy" for a cool tank as you know. t5 lights get quite warm. So fans will be a must (not expensive, but don't skimp on them) and their position should help to keep most of the heat out of the tank.

2) A vent directly to the outside will give you the opportunity to keep tank nearly as cool as outside air. This can be blocked during summer, if your flat is cooler than outside.

3) To grow the really finicky minis that want/need cool/cold air, you will need to be sure you can keep humidity high and air movement strong. As humidity increases, so does the chance for mold. Even though cool/cold temps really don't favor mold development, they don't stop it either. Air movement plus fungicide use will help that.

4) All of the above suggest a totally custom made tank. I would suggest arylic (or whatever you call it there

) in 5mm or so thickness, if possible. Thinner is OK, but be prepared for major warping of the large side panels. At one point there was a thread from someone, I think in Norway, but maybe not. He made his own tank (quite elaborate, as I recall) from some plastic material. Basically it involves finding the material (hopefully local - or at least in your own country would help) and then the solvent to glue the seams. That usually is a material like Cyanoacrylate Glue. There are other solvents as well that are meant to weld acrylic.

5) I would personally opt for a setup that does not include anything but the targets for the culture you plan. What I mean is, don't try for cool-growing plus a few intermediates, unless you are certain the intermediates can grow under the cool conditions (some can.) I run a mainly intermediate to warm tank and the Draculas (cool-growing) survive, but will only bloom in winter when the tank temps drop. Please keep us informed of how you plan to proceed. I really encourage you to plan your own from scratch. You have lots of experience and are really ready to go out on your own and do something really neat. If you need any help with the drafting part and plans, let me know.

kavanaru · #4 07-12-2008, 10:51 PM

Hi Ross,

thanks a lot for that extensive explanation

Actually, I had already decided I would go for a warm Tank. It would be placed in the center of my flat, and therefore I do not want to see any kind of pipes waving throught the flat to the outside (furthermore, summer can be quite hot and winter quite mild here too!). I had thought at the beginning of using a small fridge full of water and a pump to keep the water going trought a sort of "radiator" installed in the tank. But... I am always on the position that the plants get used to my conditions or they go to the trash can, and therefore I think it is already TOO much tech and energy invested for a couple of plants. Didn't like the idea either.

so, go for warm.

I know the main issues would be T5 producing too much heat, and mold... I had thought of keeping the T5 a couple of inches above the tank and a small ventilator blowing "fresh air" all the time between Tank and T5s. Then 1 or 2 ventilators blowing fresh air into the Tank (maybe from below) and one extracting air at the top, could help with air movement and further cooling of the tank. This of course would reduce humidity again, and is where the misting or the Fogger should work (no idea which would be better)

As per Methacrylate (also called Acrylic Glass or Plexiglass) or Glass... well, the tank should also be part of the Decoration. I think in this case glass is more suitable, as it has a better look, and methacrylate tends to be scratched too easily and would not look very nice in a short time. but maybe I am wrong here, and need further research from my side

Of course building it myself out of methacrylate would be more fun, and I can really make it as per me requirements (I have the experience, even if loooooong ago, when I used to help my two sisters building their models - both have studied architecture) lets see...

fluffylily · #5 07-18-2008, 10:14 AM

Let us know what your plans will be! I am also starting to build a terrarium but not something extremely fancy and high tech! I will try to post the progress of this on the board as well to get some more feedback. I agree with going for the int/warm tank!

travelfin · #6 07-30-2008, 04:47 PM

I have two, look at my post two terrariums.
Here are some interesting links, is it what you are looking for.
Vivaria light and lighting at www.poison-frogs.com
Dutch vivariums
Terracom.tk
on this one click on the names on the left

kavanaru · #7 07-30-2008, 07:21 PM

wow! cool terraria...

ok, so far, I have been doing my homework... and have decided the following: Terrarium out of glass: 120X110X60 cm (WxHxD) gliding doors on both lateral, so that the front is only one large piece of glass (have already tried this setup with a box, and the side doors let me enough room to play with the content of the box (my arms are quite long

)
On teh top of the terrarium I ill have a hood for the T5 lamps (4 tubes in total: 2 4000 and 2 6000K and 54 Watts each) This should provide enough light... but also enough heat

therefore, two fans will be pulling air into the tank (one from each side, below the gliding doors) and then two other fans will pull air from the tank and blow it under the light hood. This should help to keep the air in movement in the tank, but also promote good ventilation under the light hood in order to cool it down a bit (If I see, that this is not enough cooling, one or two extra fans would be installed a posteriori).

Misting or fogging? First option will be misting several times a day. However, if I manage to find a fogger that I could install with a very large water reservoir this could be teh preferred gadget (The whole tank should be able to run independently for at least one week - as I do not want to be a slave of it and sacrifice my traveling and vacations

) I have played with the idea of using a small freedge to cool down the water to be used with the mister system, but have not found a small cheap and efficient one so far (either too large or too energy ineficient) I'll keep my eyes open for it...

Plants? well, I think what I will do is wait until I have the terrarium running for one week or so, in order to have a better idea of the temperature and humidity cycles in it, and then decide which plants should be there... However, one is sure: moss and Selaginella must be there

if the tank happens to be cool enogh (depending whether I find the cooler for teh water, and the ventilation system works as expected) Masdies and Draculas will find a place in it. If it tends to be more in the warm side... there is a huge list of plants I could imagine having there... However, it will be my Miniatures-Kingdom

let's wait and see.. I hope I would have it already installed by November

(I will start working on it only after mid september)

I'll keep you informed...

shakkai · #8 07-31-2008, 04:34 AM

Ramón, I haven't chimed in here because my tanks are very basic - next to a window, so natural light, open top for air circulation, etc. I am not much help with the technical side of things... But, knowing you, I am sure that the one you put together is going to be fabulous! Keep us up to date as you proceed with your creation!

gmdiaz · #9 08-30-2008, 10:51 AM

I can't wait to see what you come up with!

I really want to build one of these too, for cool growers. . .there's a lot to figure out!

Ross · #10 08-30-2008, 06:49 PM

Has there been any progress, Ramon? I think your plans sound fine. Fans blowing between lights and case as well as one fan blowing through case. You asked that question at the start and I failed to give my opinion. I have one inside case that blows 24/7 and a second that blows through the end wall toward outlet slots in ohter end to be sure all gases, etc are evacuated and humidity lowered at night. It only runs at night (lights out period).