Terrarium growing experiments - Page 10 - Orchid Board

Mr.Fakename · #91 01-27-2021, 12:45 PM

If you can get your hands on live Sphagnum, it makes maintenance really simple, as you can just cut the heads once in a while.

Since it stays alive, it doesn't break down, and has the added benefit of giving you fresh moss whenever you need it.

Draikan · #92 01-27-2021, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

It’s good advice, Roberta.

I’ve become a snob about mounts and I find that commercial ones are often lacking In the exact ways you mentioned. Mediocre choice of mount and they put the sphag in the wrong place

DC what do you mean by this exactly? What is the "right" place for the sphagnum? Teach us your mount snob ways!

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fakename

If you can get your hands on live Sphagnum, it makes maintenance really simple, as you can just cut the heads once in a while.

Since it stays alive, it doesn't break down, and has the added benefit of giving you fresh moss whenever you need it.

I do happen to have a bit of live sphagnum...

DirtyCoconuts · #93 01-27-2021, 02:35 PM

i have learned from Kim and Roberta and trial and error

http://www.fairorchids.com/resources...%20Orchids.pdf

i find that there should be nothing between the plant and the wood. most plants in my neighborhood are happiest with either no medium or some OVER the roots to really just make a more humid area for them to start, eventually i want the roots to make their way all over so the medium is a starting point

i like hygrolon, nylons, nylon bonded thread, coir (peeled from the base of the fronds (like natural burlap), and burlap for different applications.

hygrolon good for some thirstier plants BUT it cannot be removed once the roots get it so it mighht hurt the asthetic.
I love the velcro palnt tape as it holds well and can be removed super easily once they attach,

there are a few reasons to mount plants, looks, ease of watering without over watering, growth habit of the plant, etc so i see that there are a million and one ways to accomplish it. My really overarching rule is that they are mounted to STAY so anything like a medium that could rot is not happening as it would be like a ticking clock until the plant gets impacted

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yo, that sphagnum looks like a delicious salad (probably bc of the plastic container) but i would seriously almost eat that

Roberta · #94 01-27-2021, 04:30 PM

I can see why Andy uses extra sphagnum... the plants are better able to handle shipping, and for shows, spending days in dry exhibit/sales buildings. Also, precisely because the roots attach more to the sphag than the mount, makes it easier to remount as they grow. Once they move into there "forever" homes (ours), however, they tend to need a bit of modification. Sometimes, the mount just rots (some of them have been on the mounts for some years) , if the plant is happily rooted into the mount, I just tie it to another piece of whatever seems appropriate (wood, cork, tree-fern slab, etc) without disturbing it, usually it'll just start rooting into the new surface as it goes beyond the old one.

Draikan · #95 01-27-2021, 05:21 PM

Thank you, the mounting info is great. I haven't spent too much time diving into mounting technique.

Metallising · #96 01-30-2021, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikan

Adafruit also had pretty good libraries, and an arduino variant with the wifi module built in. I didn't want to have to mess with that part.

Fan speed is controlled with a PWM output from the microcontroller on the Metro M4 Airlift Lite: Adafruit Metro M4 Express AirLift (WiFi) - Lite ID: 4000 - $34.95 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits
If you're trying to recreate it, I used the zerotimer library. I can share the code if anyone really wants it.

Hello Draikan, sorry for my late reply. I read it sooner but hadn't the time to sit down and write.

Your plants are looking good, no doubt you are going in the right direction.

Thanks for your guidance regarding the microcontroller, I will dig into some info you provided. I'm very keen into automating airflow, watering and temperature in my terrarium, so sooner or later I think I will need to get a microcontroller.

What would be the advantage of a microcontroller with wifi module built in? So you could change the code remotely?

Regarding the misting system, thank you for the graphic, it made things clear.

I noticed in your Adafruit page low humidity readings. Are you experiencing any issues in your new tank?

Have you ever considered laying some moss around the tank or having some expanded clay balls or bark chips on the bottom? So it could retain some water and keep humidity more stable. That's how I set up my tank and humidity never drops below 80%, during Winter can hold in the 90's% without watering for 3-4 days.

Draikan · #97 02-02-2021, 02:05 AM

The built in wifi module is how I send data to AdafruitIO. There is nothing wrong with using an external wifi module, it's just more work that has nothing to do with plants! None of the controls (sensor, fan, mister, etc.) need the wifi module, it's just for sending data away into the internet.

So far, having all the data available online has been just as useful for double checking that the automation is working like it's supposed to as it is for checking on the plants. I've now been running this controller for nearly a year, so I'm starting to really trust that it works like it's supposed to.

I do occasionally get lower humidity than the mister can keep up with. The humidifying mister is still limited to a 1 second pulse each minute. I could just let the mister run more when the humidity is low, but 1/60th of the time from one nozzle is plenty strong when everything is working fine. The low humidity usually only happens when the fan has blown the front flap of the tank open:

Short term I could just add some weights to the flap so it stays in place better. Long term i want to go back to sliding glass doors for the front so viewing and access is a bit better.

For humidity stability, I do add water holding material to the tanks on occasion. Particularly when there are only a few plants, the humidifying mister has to work really hard to keep the humidity up. I had a 10x20" tray of wet sphagnum in the bottom while I was still moving plants around.

But I don't actually want the humidity to stay very high all the time. I think it's a really important part of my growing conditions for the humidity to drop back into the ~90% range after watering to help the water evaporate off the mounts before it has a chance to smother out any roots. All the extra airflow I'm running plays a huge part in keeping the plants healthy while very wet, but I still don't want them to stay very wet for longer than they have to.

I wonder if I could get similar results by using less or no sphagnum on the mounts, but keeping the terrarium air very very humid? I haven't tried that combo, so it's hard to say. I want the humidity to come from the humidifying mister rather than something passive, because I want the humidity to stay under my (the microcontroller's) control. Once I have more of the controllers and sensors available, I may test a tank with very high humidity and little or no sphagnum on the mounts.

Draikan · #98 02-07-2021, 11:48 PM

Some more plant pictures today. In addition to the roots and foliage being pretty healthy and growing a bit faster, I'm also just seeing more growth than I am accustomed to. Even when I was watering all plants manually and checking humidity by hand to keep everything healthy, at best I would get one or two new roots or leaves at a time on healthy plants. Now I can see new growth on almost every plant in the space of just a few days. It's like I'll pick up a plant I saw just a few days ago, but there are new leaves and roots I don't remember. Most of the plants have many new growths started at once too. The keikis seem to be growing much more vigorously, which I did not expect. I am accustomed to very slow keiki growth. It previously took them many months to get just a few leaves, but they seem to be going much faster now.

The Stelis species mini divisions are doing really great. This is a different one that I took pictures of last time. The light green foliage is all new, and the shoots are obviously new too.

I'm also seeing much more moss growth on the mounts, which is awesome. It's even growing over the bare sections of the mount, and not just staying on the sphagnum.

The next few pictures show some of the crazy root growth I'm getting. the node at the center of the photo has 5+ new root tips coming out. They grow fast too, I feel like I can see a significant difference in length in just a few days.

This is Platystele orectoglossa, which I don't believe I have posted yet. It's not growing quite as fast as the Stelis species mini, but it still has a lot going on.

It has some very cool purpley roots. I hadn't really seen them before because they tended to stay under the sphagnum.

Here is the largest keiki from P. niveoglobula. Admittedly, it is also the first keiki I have ever received from P. niveoglobula, so I don't really know this species' keiki habits, but it is growing so fast! A second leaf is already started and it has so many roots for a keiki.

One that has not been doing so well is L. telipogoniflora. It grew one new leaf, which didn't fully open, in the first few weeks after I received it. It has bloomed twice with a single flower, but the most recent bloom dropped before opening. It is clearly in a slow decline, but I don't feel like I'm getting obvious signs from it about what is wrong. Some of the older leaves have a slight red tinge, which could be from too much light. The leaf deformation I would normally consider to be from too low humidity, but this is one of the highest humidity tanks I've ever grown in. This plant has a reputation for wanting to be really wet and hot, I'm concerned that it does not like the amount of moisture it is receiving at the temperature I keep it at. I think it might be too cold, and the fact that it "just doesn't do much" might be an indicator of unhealthy roots. The sphagnum pad on the mount is quite compact, not light and airy. But I'm afraid to remount such a tiny plant that's already struggling.

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I tried to spruce up the L. telipogoniflora mount a bit. I really didn't want to do a full remount because I don't think this plant has much energy left to cope with the change.

I started by untying the strap around the mount. It was an elastic fabricy material, like a hair tie, which I don't really like. I think the stretchy materials lead to compression of the sphagnum, since they can contract as the material compacts. I usually use wire since you can firmly attach the plant, but it won't tighten, it just stays where it was.

Then I slowly picked away the sphagnum under the plant. It was matted and dense, not airy at all.

I stopped once I uncovered some roots. Fortunately they were white and semi-healthy looking. So the plant does have a root system. The reduction in compacted sphagnum on the mount should cause the mount to dry out a bit faster, and help the roots breathe a bit. I didn't really have to disturb the roots much.

We'll see if it improves. Most advice I've seen for L. telipogoniflora suggests it should be wet, hot, and low airflow. I'm concerned exposing the roots to increased airflow may be the opposite of what it needs, but I don't think the above advice is meant to be taken as far as a soggy old mount. Maybe someone with luck at L. telipogoniflora can chime in?

Draikan · #99 02-11-2021, 06:49 PM

Just after being watered this morning:

Draikan · #**100** 02-13-2021, 06:29 PM

I've made some minor changes in the last few days.

I pointed the fan up toward the top of the terrarium. This way it doesn't blow right at the front flap of the tank. There is also a bit less ventilation (air exchange with outside) with the air flowing this way because it blows up at the top of the tank, then down along the front flap. This also makes the tank stay humid for a bit longer after watering, so I'm going to turn the fans default speed up a bit. It's at 30% right now, I'll probably try closer to 40 or 50%.

While thinking about why the Lths. telipogoniflora is struggling, it occurred to me that the orchid tank is actually quite a bit colder than it should be for mostly intermediate species. My temperatures have generally been about 15C (59F) at night, and 19C (66F) during the day. At least having warmer days at maybe 24C (75F) would probably be better for most of my plants.

I tried putting a small 25W reptile cable heater in the tank. It's the brown cable that's just looped around in the tank airspace in the above images. I'm currently only running it during the day, while the lights are on and I can keep an eye on it. It actually raises the tank temperature by about 2C, which is way more than I expected. The tank isn't insulated at all, this is a super weak heater, and I do have a lot of airflow inside the tank. I thought I would only get a few tenths of a degree out of it, but it's actually a significant bump to temperature. You can see the temperature change from when I first plugged in the heater below.

I think when I next build tanks, I'll need to try insulating them and see if I can get better control of the temperature. I've been avoiding temperature control because last time I tried it, it really dried out some parts of the tank. But with the increased circulation and humidity control, the heating doesn't seem to be causing any trouble.