Bees Bayer Systemic Pesticide

[Orchid Whisperer]

This thread is getting WAY off topic and IMO a bit too heated.

Folks, I think we can all agree that ANY pesticide (or fungicide, etc.) should be used only when necessary.
I use the Bayer products, only when needed. I also use neem, also only when needed. When used as directed, and only when needed, I don't think either product will lead to bee colony collapse. Lacking better research than I have seen in articles on the web, I am skeptical that imidacloprid use on orchids is causing major problems with bees.

My mind is open on such matters, but I need to see scientifically valid, peer-reviewed published research to be convinced. Got any? And I mean more than just web sites with an axe to grind, on either side of the subject.

[orchidsarefun]

Originally Posted by Orchid Whisperer

My mind is open on such matters, but I need to see scientifically valid, peer-reviewed published research to be convinced. Got any? And I mean more than just web sites with an axe to grind, on either side of the subject.

My mind is open too. Heck exactly who do the Europeans and the EPA think they are trying to influence my purchasing habits ? Where are my freedumbz? However I do think that I need to see "scientifically valid, peer-reviewed published research to be convinced" to buy any product containing this chemical to use on my orchids and garden. "Got any?"

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

Originally Posted by MattWoelfsen

I am battling mealy bugs for the past month with limited success. Now I'm going to Plan B and use Neem Oil. In the mean time, I'm going to order SucraShield from First Ray.

I have tried just about everything too - the latest being Garden Safe Insecticidal Soap. Somebody had mentioned an earbud dipped in alcohol. I'm onto that now as luckily I only have the problem on an isolated plant. I can't believe how fast they can climb up a 2ft spike !

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

My mind is open too. Heck exactly who do the Europeans and the EPA think they are trying to influence my purchasing habits ? Where are my freedumbz? However I do think that I need to see "scientifically valid, peer-reviewed published research to be convinced" to buy any product containing this chemical to use on my orchids and garden. "Got any?"

So, I guess that's a "no" to my question?

You have freedom to purchase anything you wish!

Here is the reason I say that I say "got any" regarding that research. Do you remember the hysteria a few years back over childhood MMR vaccines? The claim was made that they were causing autism in children. There were lots of people advocating against vaccinations, based on the fraudulent publication of one UK doctor who falsified patient records (he later lost his medical license).

Then, other scientists started doing epidemiological studies, carefully looking at the data, having peers review the results, and publishing the results. Guess what? No disease link. But, there are STILL celebrities, politicians and bloggers, claiming there is a danger. The damage done is that many fearful parents keep their kids from getting vaccinations, even to this day, exposing kids to disease (there was a huge spike in measles cases after the fraudulent study).

So, dumbz old me will wait until I see the research. Until I am convinced by research, I will keep using imidacloprid when needed. You have the freedom to use whatever you like.

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

Originally Posted by MattWoelfsen

(snip here by OW) I am battling mealy bugs for the past month with limited success. Now I'm going to Plan B and use Neem Oil. In the mean time, I'm going to order SucraShield from First Ray.

Hi Matt

I have used neem only for it's fungicidal properties so far. Having battled mealies before, I hope you will post regarding how well neem and Sucrashield work for you. Good luck, and keep us posted!

[orchidsarefun]

I am surprised you use the vaccination example because, using your logic, shouldn't you have been insisting on scientific studies proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that autism ISN'T caused by vaccinations ?
In my note # 17 I supplied evidence - OK, the EPA website - that the EPA agrees with the Europeans, other people have supplied evidence - OK from ( reputable ) websites - that imidocliprod IS toxic to bees and its impact on bee colonies is worthy of further research. I haven't seen anything claiming that the chemical ISN'T toxic to bees - if you have anything in a scientific study, please reference. Yet you continue to say that you will use it.
You gave the pro-vaccinations crowd the benefit of the doubt, but you dismiss out of hand, the anti-imadicloprid crowd ?