Any input on this fungicide?

[bambam31]

Greetings all! I've enjoyed reading the threads/posts and have learned a lot from all of you. I'm easing into the S/H world for the following reasons. 1) I'm tired of fretting "to water or not to water." 2) Ease at repotting time. 3) To fertilize or not to fertilize... I had several (4) plants that were in need of repotting and at the beginning of a new growth cycle so I figured this was the time to take the plunge.... It's only been about a week, but thus far all has gone just fine.

I have two Phals that I'm attempting to nurse back to health. The first I bought at a local retailer and it had a layer of spaghnum moss on top, and then bark beneath. I got rid of the spaghnum because I've had nothing but rot problems with it with Phals in the past. All was going well until the leaves started turning yellow... I unpotted it and to my great dissapointment there was a huge clump of spaghnum crammed up under the crown... Grrrr... I've been treating it by dousing in hydrogen peroxide, followed by a cinnamon dusting after in dries. Then at night, when all has thoroughly dried I plastic bag it with a wet paper towel.

On the second, it looked great when I looked it over at the retailer and got it home. It was late so the next day I gave a real good lookover and when I grabbed hold of the uppermost leaf - it came right off... I looked down the hole in the top of the crown - standing water! You can imagine my outrage. Obviously whoever had been watering the orchids had no clue... Now I had a rotting plant... I put it through the peroxide/cinnamon/bag treatment just like number 1 and continued to do so as all but one leaf yellowed and fell off.

I seem to have the rot contained on both - they're holding their own, with just one leaf left. I wanted to get some Physan 20 that I've heard so much about, but Ray's store was down (hope you're doing better Ray!) so I went to my closest hydroponic store and the guy at the counter snickered when I said, "Physan 20." I thought I mispronounced it or something and he said, "No, I just havn't heard that in a long time." He then proceeded to give me a product called "Hydroguard" made by "Bontanicare." He said it contained enzymes that eat the rot, which was much better than the Physan product. I did give both plants a bath in it at the directed dose... Has anyone heard of this or did I get sold down the river?

Lastly... Hopefully these plants will put out some new growth soon and I want to grow them S/H... When do you all think it would be safe/strong enough, to move them from the bag to the S/H medium?

Thanks for all your advice!

Brad

[Ross]

Originally Posted by bambam31

He said it contained enzymes that eat the rot, which was much better than the Physan product.

Brad, a quick lesson: Physan 20 is not meant to treat rot and will not do anything to cure rot. It is for things like mold, algae, etc. It is an excellent product that I keep on hand and is the only product that I know has any effect on the white mold one sometimes gets in a Wardian Case.

I have never used the product he sold you. It sounds like an "organic" product aimed at doing same thing. I personally doubt it will work as he told you, but that is not based on evidence. Now a product that does work on curing leaf rot, crown rot, and - to some degree - root rot, is called Thiomyl. It is a wettable powder and keeps for a long time once diluted. I also keep this on hand for rare rot-related issues. It's systemic so will be taken up by the plant (if it has healthy roots) and spread through the leaves. To a very minor degree, it is weakly absorbed through the leaves, but orchids aren't as heavily packed with stomata, so the transfer is not very strong. I usually drench the potting media with the solution.

Hope this helps.

[bambam31]

Thanks for the advice Ross. BTW, love the Cadillac/Manton area - especially during Morel time!

Brad

[carlstraub]

Hi,
On pg 12 of the "insert" with Physan 20:
ORCHIDS-CROWN ROT-PHAELENOPSIS
Spray plants weekly to assure solution getting around and in base of leaves.
Use 1 teaspoon PHYSAN 20 per gallon of water.

Have no idea if this works but they seem to think it does.
Carl

[Ray]

"Rot" is the decomposition of tissue by bacteria and/or fungi. In a normally healthy plant, the tissues will fight off such attacks. If we have done something culturally to weaken the tissues, or set up an environment particularly favorable for the potential "invaders", all bets are off.

Physan will kill almost all bacteria, fungi, algae, and even surface-dwelling viruses associated with horticulture (it will not cure a virused plant), so in the case of "rot", should kill the critters eating the tissue, so will stop the process. However, if the conditions that led to the tissue weakening still exist, or if the "kill" was not complete, then the process will resume.

If I have a plant that I want to move into S/H culture, but it needs some help (and I might consider sphag-and-bag), I will usually move it into S/H culture, then put the whole shootin' match in a bag. Doing so gives the advantages of the high humidity and warm, shady conditions, but avoids the second round of trauma of moving it into S/H culture after-the-fact.

[Ross]

The label on the bottle I got from you, Ray states:

Physan 20 Agaecide-fungicide-bactericide-virucide.

It also states

"Orchids
Adult plants: use 2 tsp Physan 20 per gallon water. Spray anytime disease other than rot is evident. Spray once per month as preventative maintenance..." (Emphasis mine).

I have not found it to be effective for rot at all.

[Ray]

I'll take your word on its ineffectiveness for you, Ross, but my experience is different.

You're correct about the label, but their website quotes talks about curing rot all over the place, and their mixing guide even gives orchid crown rot mixing instructions. Then there is their orchid instructions:

Physan 20

[Ray]

Ross, I emailed Physan on Friday about the apparent instructional discrepancy. I'll let you know what they have to say.

I actually hoped to get an answer right away, as they have usually been quite responsive, so either it hasn't been read yet, or they're double-checking themselves!

[bambam31]

Thanks for all the replies! Looking forward to seeing what Physan has to say.

The two Phals I was nursing have taken a turn for the worse. It appeared I had the rot stopped but then yesterday I could see soft tissues on the outside of one of them and upon closer inspection the crown broke into two pieces and the center was rotten. The poor thing was down to not having a single viable root. How on earth do you treat crown rot from the inside-out when there aren't any decent roots?

I poured peroxide on both remaining pieces and they fizzed up like crazy. I let them dry out and then put cinnamon back on them - and then back into the bag. The one half also includes the last remaining leaf - which doesn't look too bad. My guess is it's a goner... I'll just wait and if it shrivels to nothing I'll pitch it.

Brad

[Ray]

Maybe I'm wrong Brad, but it sounds like you keep it absolutely saturated - crown, roots, and all. Not a good idea.