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  #1  
Old 11-05-2014, 01:08 AM
Button Button is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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S/H or not? Need advice for my indoor microclimate
Default S/H or not? Need advice for my indoor microclimate

I made a bit of an impulse purchase at a local show last week and ended up with 4 paphs and a 5 ft vanilla planifolia. Up until recently I'd been so afraid of overwatering that I kept all of my catts and phals MUCH too dry. To make a long story short, I now have a nice little set of 'chids that are just starting to re-grow the majority of their roots (or all their roots in some cases). To add a bit of urgency to the situation, I sent my mum a pic of Phal Princess Kaiulani 'Carribean Sunset' with the comment that although I am nowhere near ready for something that fancy, I'd love to have one like that someday. An hour later she messaged me back that I need to be home on the 12th 'for a delivery.' So I have a (somewhat terrified) feeling that it might be showing up on my doorstep in the very near future.

My microclimate: I grow exclusively indoors under lights since I live in Phoenix (which is roughly the same as living on the actual sun). Temps are a/c controlled 10-11 months out of the year (sometimes the a/c gets turned off in Jan) daytime is 76-78, night time is 72, although I do have a room that is kept closer to 80-84. Ambient humidity is typically ~10%. All watering is done with either R/O or distilled with either MSU or kelpmax added.

I'm thinking that because of the super dry air and the fact a good number of my plants are in a minimally-rooted-but-starting-to-regrow state anyway that s/h is probably a good idea and there's no better time than the present. I do have a plant heat mat I can use on the phals as well to combat evaporative cooling.

Concern #1: the paphs are all currently either in bloom or bud, do I go ahead and disturb them? Or do I wait (possibly a long while) and run the risk of getting them even more stressed from chronic dehydration than they would have been from the move to s/h? They're all in coarse bark and seem to dry out VERY quickly.
Paph. valwin x moquetteanum (in bloom, one spike)
Paph. bellatulum x [Pacific Shamrock x (Yeba Buena-Golden Days)] (single bud with an inch of the spike out)
Paph. Wardii x sib ('wide wings' HCC/AQ/AOS x 'dark hinges' AM/AQ/AOS) (3 buds on 3 spikes, all just about to open)
Paph. sorcerors stone x Incharm Topaz (also 3 buds on 3 spikes not far off opening)

Concern #2: the vanilla has just ok roots, not bad not spectacular. Would it theoretically do well s/h? I currently mist it 2x daily.

Concern #3: the catts, everyone seems to advise letting them dry out between waterings, how do they adapt to s/h life? The two main candidates are Slc. Alyssa Nahemie 'Compton' and Lc. Betty Ford 'York' (both unsolicited girfts from mum that arrived at my door, both basically now in a rootless state but just starting new ones). Also how about B. Cucullata? Mine seems to be doing 'ok' but not really thriving like I'd like it to. I didn't see anything from brassavola on the sticky list.

Concern #4: assuming that the super fancy phal does arrive on my doorstep in the near future, go ahead and switch it immediately?

Sorry for the very long post, I just wanted to paint the most complete picture possible about my conditions and issues coming in to this. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2014, 08:32 AM
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Ray Ray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Button View Post
Concern #1: the paphs are all currently either in bloom or bud, do I go ahead and disturb them? Or do I wait (possibly a long while) and run the risk of getting them even more stressed from chronic dehydration than they would have been from the move to s/h? They're all in coarse bark and seem to dry out VERY quickly.
Paph. valwin x moquetteanum (in bloom, one spike)
Paph. bellatulum x [Pacific Shamrock x (Yeba Buena-Golden Days)] (single bud with an inch of the spike out)
Paph. Wardii x sib ('wide wings' HCC/AQ/AOS x 'dark hinges' AM/AQ/AOS) (3 buds on 3 spikes, all just about to open)
Paph. sorcerors stone x Incharm Topaz (also 3 buds on 3 spikes not far off opening)
Paphs are super-flexible. You may safely repot them at any time without fear of bud- or flower loss.

Quote:
Concern #2: the vanilla has just ok roots, not bad not spectacular. Would it theoretically do well s/h? I currently mist it 2x daily.
I have little first-hand experience with them, but vanilla plants - being vines - seem like a poor choice for S/H culture. They take up water and nutrition through all of the roots growing the entire length of the vine, not just those at the end.

Quote:
Concern #3: the catts, everyone seems to advise letting them dry out between waterings, how do they adapt to s/h life? The two main candidates are Slc. Alyssa Nahemie 'Compton' and Lc. Betty Ford 'York' (both unsolicited girfts from mum that arrived at my door, both basically now in a rootless state but just starting new ones). Also how about B. Cucullata? Mine seems to be doing 'ok' but not really thriving like I'd like it to. I didn't see anything from brassavola on the sticky list.
ANY plant can be grown in S/H culture; that sticky list is a misleading waste of space, as it doesn't give any indication if the plant can be grown IN YOUR CONDITIONS.

Yes, cattleya-types can be grown in S/H, but the timing of repotting (unlike paphs) is super-critical: unless there are brand new roots just emerging from brand new growths, wait.

Quote:
Concern #4: assuming that the super fancy phal does arrive on my doorstep in the near future, go ahead and switch it immediately?
Nobody can answer that question for you. If it's planted in sphagnum when you get it, moving it to S/H culture may be just fine. If it's growing in bark, timing becomes more of a concern.

When roots grow, they "tailor" themselves to the conditions they are in, and once they have grown, they cannot change. When you change the conditions they are in, which is what happens when you repot or move a plant into different media, those roots may not be optimized for those new conditions - the bigger the difference, the worse-off they'll be (hence my comment about the phal being in sphagnum, which tends to be wetter). We expect that they will ultimately fail, die, and decompose. If the plant is just beginning to grow new roots (not new growth on existing roots), those will grow to functional optimally in that environment, so can support the plant. If that's not happening, it will sit there, suffering, until new roots do emerge - if you can keep it alive that long.

One thing that concerns me is your apparent feeling that S/H culture is going to solve your cultural issues. It might help, but you really need to upgrade your overall conditions to be better suited for the plants, and understand that water does not kill plants, suffocating the roots does.
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2014, 08:39 AM
mtorchid mtorchid is offline
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1. I would suggest waiting to transplant into s/h any plant that is in its bloom cycle. Wait until the growth cycle (new roots/P-bulbs/leaves) start to show signs of new growth.

2. No experience with vanilla except from a bottle.

3. My Catts hybrids love s/h. I actually have a moisture loving Brassavola in clay pellets in a wooden Vanda basket! I keep it in a 5" or so deep clear plastic "saucer" with pellets on the bottom that make a good moist micro-climate.

4. (see #1)

You might invest in a small room humidifier to boost the RH. I use R/O in mine, so the wick/filter lasts a long time.
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2014, 01:02 PM
Button Button is offline
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S/H or not? Need advice for my indoor microclimate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Paphs are super-flexible. You may safely repot them at any time without fear of bud- or flower loss.
Excellent, that's very good news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
I have little first-hand experience with them, but vanilla plants - being vines - seem like a poor choice for S/H culture. They take up water and nutrition through all of the roots growing the entire length of the vine, not just those at the end.
That's pretty much what I was thinking, but I figured it never hurts to ask. I'll just keep doing the spraying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Yes, cattleya-types can be grown in S/H, but the timing of repotting (unlike paphs) is super-critical: unless there are brand new roots just emerging from brand new growths, wait.
The two specific ones I originally mentioned are currently in that state, sadly essentially rootless aside from the fresh ones that are just emerging out of the newly erupting eyes. All of these fresh new roots are still 1/2 inch or less. My other catts seem content as they are so I'll leave them alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
One thing that concerns me is your apparent feeling that S/H culture is going to solve your cultural issues. It might help, but you really need to upgrade your overall conditions to be better suited for the plants, and understand that water does not kill plants, suffocating the roots does.
I completely understand your concern, and am working steadily to improve their environments. The ambient humidity is the biggest challenge (until we move, hubby has promised me a greenhouse yay!), I've tried the pebble trays of water underneath and I keep everything with similar needs grouped together to try to raise it, but it just seems to get sucked away as fast as I can produce it.

---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtorchid View Post
3. My Catts hybrids love s/h. I actually have a moisture loving Brassavola in clay pellets in a wooden Vanda basket! I keep it in a 5" or so deep clear plastic "saucer" with pellets on the bottom that make a good moist micro-climate.

You might invest in a small room humidifier to boost the RH. I use R/O in mine, so the wick/filter lasts a long time.
That's awesome about your Brassavola! Are the pellets so that the roots don't actually touch the water? Or more to keep the basket (I'm picturing a wooden basket) from rotting?

I've thought about the room humdiifier, but the hubby collects firearms and I'm a studio jeweler (aka lots of very expensive and rust sensitive tools and equipment) so I really want to avoid that. I'm thinking I might go with a vivarium approach instead, maybe get several of the big exoterra-type tanks and tailor the climates in each to suit.
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