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  #1  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:00 PM
orchidrandall orchidrandall is offline
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Default how tall pots?

How tall do the pots need to be?
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2007, 10:42 PM
orchidrandall orchidrandall is offline
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Im just wondering how tall the pots need to be... I have some 1 gallon gator aid bottles that I wanted to convert to S/H pots.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:42 AM
FinnBar FinnBar is offline
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if you wanna be exact it'll depend on the size of the root system. the roots should be well above the reservoir.
i'd go for approx. 1,5 times taller than the pot that they're sitting on now.
have you read all the info available here?
Repot into S/H
good luck!
Antti
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  #4  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:49 AM
goodgollymissmolly goodgollymissmolly is offline
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Default SH Containers

I think FinnBars answer is OK, but does not fully answer the question. In my opinion (free, so it's obviously not too valuable), you should look at what Ray offers and judge from that. Ray is obviously the most knowledgable SH person around. Why not just buy Ray's containers since they work and are cheap?

Ray's containers are generally about twice as tall as their diameter. In other words a height to diameter ratio of 2. This allows a place for the water reservoir in the bottom generally below the roots (they will grow into the water, however, but those roots should be designed to be in the water or they will just terminate.) Additionally that ratio is proven to allow wicking of moisture into the upper reaches of the medium. You could easily get the container too tall.

Ray's stuff works so I would copy it.

Jim
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2007, 08:12 AM
FinnBar FinnBar is offline
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capillary action will occur no matter what height to diameter ratio. the bigger the diameter, the greater the evaporation speed.
Ray states on his site that he has previously used all kinds of containers, painters buckets and whatnot, so if you want to make your own, there's nothing stopping you.
I don't have a source for ray's pots here and i've been succesful with my homemade ones, they're just not as good-looking...
Ray's site is the best source for all s/h info, including the necessary information needed for making your own pots.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2007, 10:09 AM
goodgollymissmolly goodgollymissmolly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnBar View Post
capillary action will occur no matter what height to diameter ratio. the bigger the diameter, the greater the evaporation speed.
Ray states on his site that he has previously used all kinds of containers, painters buckets and whatnot, so if you want to make your own, there's nothing stopping you.
This is an interesting issue (well, to me anyway). First, I'm not sure that capillary action is the main mass transfer mechanism at play here. In theory that would require a continuous capillary to move through. Obviously with individual clay beads we have no such continuous path internally though you may argue that external clay surfaces provide a path that adhesion and surface tension could exploit similarly to a tube.

There is clearly a height factor involved in capillary transfer. The maximum height that a liquid can be lifted through a tube with round cross section is 2 x surface tension divided by the product of the liquid density x the radius of the tube x acceleration due to gravity (32 ft/sec/sec). If external surfaces are being used as capillaries then some similar, but complex, mathematical solution would apply. In short height is a factor.

I suspect that evaporation from the reservoir and condensation on higher beads as the vapor rises is a more likely mass transfer mechanism in SH culture. In this case the more evaporation that occurs from the top surface the better. That is because as water vapor leaves the container more evaporation occurs below and there is a continuous rise of moisture through repeated evaporation and condensation steps as we go upwards. Of couse this means more frequent need to add liquid to the container. This mechanism suggests that no restriction on height applies because the vapor will rise until it reaches the surface and leaves the area.

In conclusion to this boring solo, I suggest that both a form of external (to the clay beads) capillary action and evaporation/condensation is at work here. Since the capillary mechanism is height limited, there probably is a sweet spot for the proper container height. There is also an advantage to larger container surface areas, but that is not operable outside the root diameter.

So the best container is a diameter that contains, but does not exceed greatly, the plant root ball diameter. The proper height is one that provides continuous moisture to the roots through both mass transfer mechanisms above and allows a reservoir area below the main root ball. I do not pretend to be able to calculate the dimensions of this container, but I do suggest that an optimum exists. Since Ray has done some experiments to support his container and medium recommendations, it appears smart to stick closely to his geometry until you have data other than his to support changes. Thus I repeat my conclusion that approximately a 2:1 height to diameter is proven workable and deviations should be considered carefully.

Jim
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2007, 11:04 AM
Buds! Buds! is offline
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Just from my own short experience, I use 1:1.5 (diameter: height).
It is just because it is difficult to find tall cheap containers.
My containers are usually the 'take away' type (30cents from the supermarket), jugs with the handle taken off and peanut butter jars.
I would buy Ray's containers but he doesn't ship to Aust.
All my 30 phals and 3 catts are loving it!
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:16 PM
FinnBar FinnBar is offline
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yes, mine are too. I don't think "size matters" as much as goodgollymissmolly is trying to prove.
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  #9  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:20 PM
goodgollymissmolly goodgollymissmolly is offline
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I think we all agree that SH works and works well. I have species and hybrid catts, catt alliance species and hybrids, phrags, and paphs in SH and they are all doing very well.

Some people report less successful results so obviously you can mess it up. I wonder why my results are so good and a few others seem to hate SH.

Sorry ya'll can't get Ray's containers. They are polyethylene or polypropylene I'm not sure which. I like them because the walls are thicker than most packaging containers so they do not deform when you pick them up. The deforming can disturb roots because it moves the medium around..
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:39 PM
goodgollymissmolly goodgollymissmolly is offline
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Default Height Correction

I went and measured some of Ray's containers and they are not nearly as tall as my tales. The three sizes I measured were (Diameter/height in inches):

6/8
4.5/5.5
8.5/7

So in round numbers a height to diameter ratio of 1:1 is much more representative than my previously estimated number. Sorry about that screw up.

Jim
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