Phal planted in s/h - Orchid Board

Becca · #1 06-13-2007, 10:59 AM

Hi potted a phal. that I rescued into s/h....it didn't have any new growth....not sure what I was thinking. Anyways, I haven't taken it out of the pot to check the roots, but the roots that I can see below the top layer are shriveling up. This plant did have nice big fat green roots and I know the person who had it didn't know much about orchid care so they gave it to me after getting water on the leaf caused some leaf rot that didn't have a chance to spread far from what I could see. My normal experience is for the roots to get mushy and rot when adjusting to the s/h culture, not dry up, any suggestions? I plan on taking the plant out tonight or tomorrow to see what else is going on down below.

Ray · #2 06-13-2007, 09:41 PM

Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca....

Boy, you worry a lot and get yourself into all kinds of "fixes"!!!

1) You are comparing your experience with catts to this one with phals. A no-no, as they just ain't the same.

2) I suggest that you take a break from experimenting until you understand better what's really going on.

In this case, you had roots that were growing in some other medium. You transplanted it when it wasn't in active growth. The first point makes me expect that the roots might not function well in the new environment. The second tells me that the plant is now "stuck" waiting for new growth to begin.

Now then, let's analyze the situation in further detail: in the pot, it's dry at the top and wet at the bottom. If the roots are somewhat compromised by the change in environment, the plant is likely to try to absorb what it can (especially in a low humidity environment), but if the outside isn't providing adequate moisture, it will desiccate the roots instead.

Another possibility is that minerals building up in that drier region are poisoning those roots, as they are not fully functional and hence, more sensitive to the vagaries of the environment.

3) Stop unpotting plants all the time. That does absolutely nothing to promote new root growth - in fact, repeated disturbances can stall the process.

Becca · #3 06-13-2007, 11:05 PM

Okay I admit I should be patient and stop unplanting my plants....and I admit I should stop expermenting! I just can't control it! Okay on the serious side....big mistake on my part to plant while the plant is not in active growth....and before I read your reply...I unpotted the phal to look at it...lol. Yes the roots down further were rotting while some up top were desicated. I know the the orchids are different and I should not compare the experiences with cattleyas to the experience with the phal and I just hate waiting for new growth...here sits all this PrimeAgra I purchased and I can't use it. Unfortunately I have repotted several plants that were not in active growth, will they ever come out of the "stuck" phase? I feel like giving up sometimes! I did take a few pictures of the roots of the phal....they had some white stuff on them, I am not sure if it is normal....it almost looked like fungus but I couldn't tell. One last question Ray....what do I do if I have repotted a plant not in active growth and it becomes "stuck" waiting for new growth and meanwhile the roots are rotting? Should I just leave it? Or take it out and repot it in a medium like what it was in before and wait for new growth? I really don't want to kill my orchids, so if not messing with them is what I need to do and whatever else is recommended then that is what I will do. Thanks for your help! Oh and I have encluded some photo's of the roots of the phal I took this evening for you all to chuckle at as well as a couple of pictures of a hole that is in the leaf and I was wondering if the leaf will be fine this way.

quiltergal · #4 06-13-2007, 11:13 PM

I'm experiencing something similar though I totally expected it to happen. I had to do an emergency transplant of a phal I bought in peat that had no new root growth showing. It was showing signs of root rot. I had two choices at the time, throw it in coco or s/h. I didn't think it would have faired any better in coco since that's pretty different from peat. At any rate I have lost roots which I expected, and one leaf. I think the decline has arrested at this point. The plant has not shown any additional signs of stress, so I'm hoping it has turned the corner and decided to live. When I watered on Sunday I gave the pot a couple of good flushes with plain water and noticed that there are still a couple of fat green roots below the surface that I can see. Is it normal for them to turn green when wet and then turn a darker color as they dry out?

I guess what I'm trying to say in a very round about way is stay the course. You need to give the plant a chance to adjust and it can't do that if it's in and out of the pot all the time. I am making myself wait and observe what happens with the two plants I have in s/h. I really want this to work, and I'm trying not to be impatient. I tell myself this is an experiment and that I have to be willing to let things ride and possibly lose a plant. This is clearly a good time to apply the less is more theory. The less I mess with them the more I'll know what not to do next time or what to keep doing.

gmdiaz · #5 06-14-2007, 06:34 AM

I am in a similar situation. . .

I had a phal in a terrarium, bad idea. So I took it out and cleaned up the roots that were in poor shape and transplated it carefully in the s/h.

I've got it in one of those pretty ceramic planters with the slits on the side for ventilation and feet on the base. It's sitting on top of my filing cabinet at work, in perfect light. The pot is sitting in a ceramic tray full of water. Because the planter has feet, the phal is just suspended above the water and so has a little extra humidity. It's also surrounded by other phals with the same setup.

So far, it's been about a week, I am seeing no leaf deterioration or wilting. I am using a diluted mixture of worm tea & I also mist the plants occassionally. I have no idea what the roots are doing and no, I am not going to peek. .like some people. lol

I'll post a picture. . .

The "sickie" is the one without a bloom, I clipped off the spike. . .it's on the far left, front row.

mojomick · #6 06-14-2007, 09:52 AM

How are you able to keep the water in the bottom of the ceramic pot. It seems to me that the plants I have in sh really need a good inch of water at the bottom or the LECA seems to dry out and not wick. mojomick

Vanessa · #7 06-14-2007, 10:03 AM

I was wondering the same thing? The ceramic pots do look beautiful.

gmdiaz · #8 06-14-2007, 10:31 AM

Oh that's a really good point! I probably should have planted the sick one in another container first and then put it in the ceramic pot! I guess, it's OK for now though. I am watering it every day or so and misting too. But I think you're right, it probably is drying out too much and does need to sit in a little water. I think I'll see what I can do about that!

My other phals are in orchid bark and spagnum in a little tight container, just sitting inside the ceramic pot.

P.S. Edited to add. . .I got those ceramic pots at Home Depot and they're only about $2.50 each! Got the ceramic trays at Walmart for about $4.50 each.

Ray · #9 06-14-2007, 05:50 PM

I was gonna point out that the plant is NOT in semi-hydro culture...

Becca & Quiltergal - at what temperatures are you growing your plants and what condition are the roots in when you transplant them? I have transplanted literally hundreds - maybe thousands - of plants and I rarely see rapid rotting, especially with phals. Usually the old roots slowly disintegrate over the course of months or even a year.

Becca · #10 06-14-2007, 06:20 PM

Ray, my temperatures I am growing in are mid 70's to 80 during the day and in the evening around 60 to 65. These are the temperatures for the plants that I grow inside. I have cymbidiums that I grow outside. The Phal I repotted I had got from my Grandmother, she had gotten some water on a leaf so I took it home to cut the bad part of the leaf off. I remember her saying she was also watering the plant at first while its plastic container sat inside of a ceramic container and so it would sit in the water....and then she realized she shouldn't do that. The Phal was planted in a bark mixture and the roots were healthy healthy healthy and very green! I feel bad for almost killing her only orchid and she only had it for about a month. I think my problem is the humidity with the s/h culture. I could be wrong, but my humidity is only around 20% here. I should get something to measure the humidity when using humidity trays that I have built into my plant table.

Anyways...so I have bright light, temps around 70 to 80 during the day and around 60 to 65 in the evenings, and very low humidity. I am sure that the humidity part is what is causing the problems with the roots rotting so fast in the s/h culture, I am correct? Thanks for trying to help me, I know it is not easy