Cattleya Dowiana - Winter Rest

[mopwr]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

I can't address the S/H aspect, but I doubt it is different from non-S/H. My C. dowiana 4N seedlings (qty 64) have been growing continuously in bark without a rest for the last 2 years.

Edit: First year was indoors under lights with indoor conditions people find comfortable. This winter they are in my greenhouse with 75F days, 60F nights. Fertilizer year one was 1/4 tsp/gal Miracid 15-10-10 1 x month. This year it is 1/8 tsp/gal MSU at every watering.

Thanks for this, that's really interesting being as most of the material out there speaks of no rest (or improper rest) as basically a death sentence.

The only thing I've noticed with all of my orchids is that I basically try to read them in terms of what they are "telling me" so to speak... Very scientific, I know, but basically, if they are starting to grow, I slowly increase fertilizer, as they begin growing faster, increase a little more, as they slow down, decrease, etc., etc. If they stop growing altogether, then I go to the minimum fertilizer (something around 1/8 tsp per gallon sounds about right from what I do) with pure water interspersed - simply because sometimes I don't feel like mixing up more since most plants need less anyways.

An example of where I've seen that work well, is with Maxillaria Tenuifolia. Even though they are super easy to grow, I feel like they follow that example to a "T". For most of the year, they don't seem to like much fertilizer, and I've burned their roots by accident when I was still learning even though I was using fairly dilute amounts... Once they start bulbing up though, they can tolerate - even love - almost double what I give them when they're just starting out and a lot more when they are just sitting there seemingly doing nothing. Following this setup I've seen the bulbs get massive comparatively to what they had done before - this year especially, I'll know come spring if the larger / plumper bulbs correspond to more flowers, but I'm assuming so.

You raise an interesting point with just going slow and steady all the time, though. Assuming that it's dillute enough, the plant will use what it can, and there shouldn't be enough build up to cause any sort of root burn, but while it's growing less, some could possibly accumulate in the medium and sit there available for use when it starts pushing out new growths, etc. It's something interesting to think about though.

[Roberta]

I grow my Neos outdoors, so winter temps close to freezing. Not protected from rain, so they do get wet but watering is reduced on general principles. Peter T. Lin (Diamond Orchids) grows them in an unheated shadehouse - gets colder where he lives, somewhat inland from me (frost more common) but they are also protected from rain and kept pretty dry in winter. He grows them much better than I do... so something to think about. He grows them in the traditional Japanese moss mound, lets the moss get quite crunchy between waterings in cold weather.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by mopwr

Thanks for this, that's really interesting being as most of the material out there speaks of no rest (or improper rest) as basically a death sentence.

My experience is that the mature plants are much more likely to die from rot than the seedlings. Unfortunately, the literature doesn't seem to distinguish between the two life phases.

Originally Posted by Roberta

I grow my Neos outdoors, so winter temps close to freezing. Not protected from rain, so they do get wet but watering is reduced on general principles. Peter T. Lin (Diamond Orchids) grows them in an unheated shadehouse - gets colder where he lives, somewhat inland from me (frost more common) but they are also protected from rain and kept pretty dry in winter. He grows them much better than I do... so something to think about. He grows them in the traditional Japanese moss mound, lets the moss get quite crunchy between waterings in cold weather.

They grow as far north as Korea, so it makes sense they can take temps down to freezing! It's a super tough species.

[Shadeflower]

yeah turns out the thrips are back again....

So false alarm or not really? Anyway at least I suspect I know why now.

Bigger plants can handle thrips but smaller ones with thin flimsy roots get affected badly unfortunately

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

yeah turns out the thrips are back again....

So false alarm or not really? Anyway at least I suspect I know why now.

Bigger plants can handle thrips but smaller ones with thin flimsy roots get affected badly unfortunately

Ugh, thrips can definitely tear through a collection. Hopefully you’re able to hit em hard!

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by mopwr

Thanks for this, that's really interesting being as most of the material out there speaks of no rest (or improper rest) as basically a death sentence.

Seedlings are nowhere near as temperamental. For mature C. dowiana wet and cool can result in stem infections that progress through the plant in a short period of time.

The only thing I've noticed with all of my orchids is that I basically try to read them

I think "reading" the plants as you described is the way to go. If it is in active growth, more fertilizer and water make sense. I have a Rhynocholaelia digbhyana and a couple C. lueddemanniana that are in active growth out of season. The watering can stays on their baskets much longer than those that are not growing. Bulb shriveling is another good indicator. In winter, if bulbs become too shriveled on a plant with good roots, increase water slightly.

...sometimes I don't feel like mixing up more since most plants need less anyways.

Sure. Why not give yourself a bit of a rest too. In the cool of winter the plants take longer to dry out as well.
-Keith

---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Roberta

I grow my Neos outdoors, so winter temps close to freezing.

Just one additional note, Amami Neos and Neos with Amami ancestry are less cold tolerant than the other small varieties.

-Keith

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

I have a Rhynocholaelia digbhyana and a couple C. lueddemanniana that are in active growth out of season.

Shoot, all my luedds and my one glauca are in full growth mode. No rest for the beautiful!

[Shadeflower]

well my lueddemannias have only been with me for a couple of months but I thought they were hot growers, ie no rest?
Mine are in full active growth mode too.

My glauca is also. Hardly any resting here. The Jenmannii seems to be resting.

[Clawhammer]

Originally Posted by isurus79

My experience is that the mature plants are much more likely to die from rot than the seedlings. Unfortunately, the literature doesn't seem to distinguish between the two life phases.

Thanks for making this distinction. I grew lithops from seed for a while and the same is true for that plant.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

well my lueddemannias have only been with me for a couple of months but I thought they were hot growers, ie no rest?
Mine are in full active growth mode too.

Different sources will give differing opinions, but Chadwick agrees with you.

Cattleya lueddemanniana begins growing during the winter, and as soon as the new growth is mature, it sends up buds and flowers in March and April with no rest period. After blooming, it will usually make another growth that will not flower and the plant will then rest until next winter.

Edited: A couple of mine have growths that are nearing maturity. If they follow the Chadwick pattern the should be blooming in January or they will rest during mid winter. Three others have small growths. They would seem to be on the Chadwick schedule for maturing growths in February or March, which would result in flowers in March or April time frame cited by Chadwick.

Based on all the C. lueddemannianas growing now, it seems you are right, or at least more right than I am.




-Keith