Cattleya Dowiana - Winter Rest

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

I have a Rhynocholaelia digbhyana and a couple C. lueddemanniana that are in active growth out of season.

Shoot, all my luedds and my one glauca are in full growth mode. No rest for the beautiful!

[My Green Pets]

If I were going to try one of these difficult Cattleyas in S/H, I would simply let the reservoir dry out in late October and not fill it again until new growth has started and pushed out about 3-5 cm. If I felt the plant absolutely needed water, I would perhaps mist the top of the LECA a bit with just enough water that would dry within a day. I would also be mindful to keep that dowiana temperature range of 18C/65F to 29C/85F.

[Shadeflower]

when you are the only person not receiving a like on your reply it might tell you that your opinion is not welcome.

I'm sorry to hear that mop. It is true I don't have any pure dowiana's. Plenty of dowiana hybrids but when it comes to growing Catts I did also throw the manual out the window and was pleasantly surprised they actualy grow better that way.

But maybe the dowiana which has been used for most catt hybrids since is really tricky to grow. I will carry on blissfully speculating people just like to make out it is so when they get it to flower it is even more of an accomplishement.

It must have been picked as the mother of all hybrids for a reason though.

Each to their own mop. I know it will do well either way so then all you have to ask yourself is do you need to follow the strict guidelines to a T if someone else doesn't and gets great results too.

But yes fine I do not grow a dowiana as such so my opinion is just that. Still eeven someone who has grown a dowiana seeling specifically won't have much more experience on the subject yet, not unless he has tried a) not watering and b) watering and fertilizng throughout winter and compared the results.

It's all a bit of speculation and assumptions and of course previous growers experience helps but what I found was that all the advice given was specifically for orchids grown non-hydroponically.

In hydroponics it all changes. I don't use S/H but I grow excusively in hydroponics. Or self watering pots. The traditional advice is no good anymore.

So be it.

[mopwr]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

when you are the only person not receiving a like on your reply it might tell you that your opinion is not welcome..

I apologize if that was the impression you got, my forum / posting etiquette is probably not the best and it wasn't my intent. I replied to your post instead of liking it, but I defintely saw the value of what you were getting at. Semi-hydro definitely changes a lot and I'm sure I'll find out soon enough what works and does not first-hand. If I were a grower with 100 of these seedlings, experimentation might be a bit less scary, but being as I only have one of these and the culture warnings out there were so dire, I was curious if any more experienced in this arena could share - and so far, there's a lot of valid points from all perspectives. The videos are super helpful as well, so thank you.

[Shadeflower]

thanks mop :tup:

I hope you do ok with it too. I have an RLC husky boy which is one of my smallest seedlings. It only has one growth and it started developing spots on the leaves.
I really did not want to lose it so I switched things around and it has rewarded me with a new leaf already. Still on the verge with only 3 roots but I can guarantee you if I had backed off the ferts the brown spots would have worsened.

I should elaborate more if I am arguing for it so in winter I reduce the feed down to half, no question about that. If they are not growing any roots or leaves and completely dormant then it doesn't matte either way. I am saying it doesn't matter either way because if they are dormant they will not be drinking and thus won't be taking in any fertilizer anyway.

I've seen zero side effects but I do feed very sparingly so that matters too like I mentioned in bark you might like to fertilzie a bit more than me, maybe weekly higher dose feeds. Bark unlike lecca stores nutrients so in winter the people that feed plain water for a couple of months are in fact clearing the pots of nutrients which will get leeched out in tiny amounts.
This is certainly beneficial.

Like I mentioned before both ways will be fine but if an orchid is not in good health, then skip a winter for it. Keep it warmer and keep feeding it (even if just half strength).
I'm done exposing weak orchids to winters they cannot handle. Before I knew better I'd pop the orchid into its spot next to others that could handle it but only strong healthy orchids can and should handle a winter.

In nature nobody can bring them into the warm but in nature orchids regularly die. That is not our aim growing them at home.

To clarify further the strength I use in winter is 120ppm tds so vey weak. Rain water is 30-60 so I only add another 90 ontop.

Like I also said if they don't drink much in winter (like 10 times less) then they will be getting 10 times less nutrients.

That is one concept I know is hard to grasp but I want to elaborate even further that my seedlings get fed very similarly to my bigger plants. IT seems cymbidiums do have a slightly higher need for nutrients but for example my dendrobium nobiles grow amazingly getting fed the same concentration as my seedlings.

I've had lots of people tell me this is hogwash but this is what I have been doing for the last 3 years with no problems.

The way it works is very simple, a seedling will drink about 100 ml of water in a year.

My nobiles drink 15 liters in a year or another way to look at it would be they consume 150 times more than my seedlings.

Since I fertilzie with every watering my nobiles automatically consume 150 times more nutrients than my seedlings.

So is that enough? From my experience it seems to be.

mature orchids can handle more if one wanted and seedlings are sensitive but the bigger orchids don't need as much as one would think.

I do realize it's irrelevant arguing about it though, it's just what I believe in and do and in bark I used to make the plant use up any excess fertilizer that built up in the year so that does make sense. But I have also seen orchids struggle because of suspected deficiencies so it all should be considered. Lecca doesn't store nutrients so I believe they need to be fed continuously unlike bark where one can fertilize weekly and the bark stores and releases it back over time.

Hope I'm not putting anyone off the subject yet but I do feel people that recommend something have tried both ways and know why they are recommending against something, not that they just read that's the way it is done and so that is the way to do it.

Like I said hydroponic growing is a new way and what has been recommended in the past for bark will not necessarily work in the same way for lecca for example.

There is also an interesting study that shows bark acts more like soil than spaghnum moss does. Ie spaghnum is more hydroponic and the exact nutrietion is more important wheras bark can absorb and release nutrients and correct imbalances more eassily it seems.

So my honest opinion is that bark is amongst the best media to use, especially for sensitive seedlings and it does influence how well the orchid will grow, it will correct mistakes more than hydroponics can.

[Jeff214]

I've been growing a couple of dowiana seedlings in bark and sphagnum moss for a few years. I've been following the no growth, no fertilizer thing. It seems to need copious amounts of water when in growth but likes to be dry and misted when in resting or in cooler temps.

The only one I killed (so far?) was the one I fertilized just when the new growth started. It may have been still waking up from its rest period? I dunno. May have been a combination of other reasons. The whole thing suddenly turned black in a few days... very sad.

[isurus79]

A friend of mine on Oahu took care of an adult dowiana when I moved from Hawaii to Texas in 2010. He was an expert grower with many decades of experience under his belt. The rainy winter with temps no lower than 60 killed the plant under his care from rot. Just goes to show how quickly this species can die with winter water over a long enough duration (remember, they still need some water in winter). I think I would follow William Green’s advice with an adult plant.

Of interest is that seedlings Cattleyas can often be pushed to grow through a dormant period by continuing to water. You might be able to make this happen with your plant, especially in the warm conditions you described.

[thefish1337]

People are growing this plant in semi-hydro:

Cattleya Dowiana var. aurea - Magnificent Orchid Species - YouTube

As long as you avoid watering with cold tap water and try to keep your night temps in the 60s at night you will be fine with your plant in semi hydro.

[Shadeflower]

I actually saw that Mygreenpets has lots of Dowiana seedlings at the moment.. He does stop watering in winter he says but also adds he doesn't know if it's the right thing to do. I don't either but I like seeing what others do.

I know this next video is unrelated to dowiana but it shows how someone can claim to have the answer yet get it so wrong at the same time.
Thoughout this video I was just thinking "noooooo" and "omg" and "is that even an orchid?" "where is the greenness?"

So don't get me wrong, I love watching nija's video's but everyone gets some things wrong at times.

I know lots will watch that video and think what's he on about, that's what I was told to do and have done also.

Did you do it in lecca though? All her plants are grown in lecca (or bareroot) and omg seeing her plants sent off warning bells for me. Those plants look in a precarious position to be entering winter and there she is saying now is the time to stop caring for them completely while the cold arrives! Well I'm not surprised she lost a lot more orchids than me this year.

She seems to have poisened her plants with copper fungicide but seriously look at the cattleya at the 8 minute mark and tell me, does that catt look healthy and able to handle temps going lower?

I'd be really surprised if that makes it with the temp drop looking so depleted as it is.

SIX TIPS when NOT to FERTILIZE your ORCHIDS and WHY | Orchid Care for Beginners & Pros - YouTube

[My Green Pets]

Well no arguing that what Miracle is doing is working wonderfully for her. The proof is in the pudding!

It appears Miracle has achieved a nice balance of water and air with her wicking system. I wonder if she waters with tap, or if it matters? She mentioned in her video she only fills the reservoirs once a month, or every 6 weeks!

I also am curious to know if the traditional S/H technique with a reservoir is much different than this wicking technique.

She also mentions fertilizing heavily in every season except winter. I wonder if she stops fertilizing completely during that time, and if the reservoir stays wet.

I guess I could message her and ask instead of all this wondering.

Thanks for sharing this video, very interesting!