What to do with the dead transition roots??? - Orchid Board

GinaStarSeed · #1 07-23-2020, 05:40 PM

Hello Orchid Lovers. I need some advice from someone skilled in Semi-Hydro. So, I had my orchids in a semi-semi hydroponics type thing. I finally got all my babies transitioned to a semihydropics setup. They had some shock, but the new growths are looking good. All the old roots have died on almost every plant. I pulled one up to check and every root was dead and the old roots were getting a little bit of what looked like some fungus fuzz..

So, my question is. I just transitioned them less than 2 months ago. I do not want to disturb them by uprooting them right now to clean out the dead roots.. but I also do not want to leave all these old dead roots in this moist set up to rot in there and maybe causes issues.

What is the balance. When should I worry about getting these out?? I do not want to over disturb them...but, I also do not want to let the old roots get all locked up in the media and the new roots take over.

Thoughts please?? Thank you!!!

Ray hoping to hear from you. 🥰

estación seca · #2 07-23-2020, 05:47 PM

Just forget about the old roots. They will rot and fall apart.

Don't pull them up. You just set them back another 2 months or more.

fishmom · #3 07-23-2020, 08:00 PM

If you are growing in a semi-hydroponic setup, those dead roots will deteriorate and get flushed out when you flush the pot. I assume you are using some kind of inorganic medium like LECA? Just run lots of water through and they will disappear gradually.

Ray · #4 07-24-2020, 06:03 AM

Yes, to both replies above.

About the only time I've gone ahead and repotted a recently-established plant is if it had a really extensive root system before moving it into S/H. That can lead to a large amount of "dead mass" in the pot, so I unpot, dump and repot with very little other cleaning.

If the new roots grew in S/H, putting it back, but in fresh medium, is usually not much of a shock.

GinaStarSeed · #5 07-25-2020, 05:58 PM

Ok. So. Most of mine did have rather extensive root systems . I have over 60 orchis I repotted though. So want to do want is needed to keep them healthy and vibrant, but not overwork myself since this switch was a lot already. But they did most have big root systems... thoughts?? Should I do as you said and pull them up to get the big dead root systems out then you think?

Also, I don't have a set up to easily flush every single time. So it is more sparse that I flush. How important is that? And how often?

estación seca · #6 07-25-2020, 06:46 PM

I would not uproot them. Dying organic material is not contagious. It does not cause rot in adjacent living organic material in good health. Old roots in habitat die all the time and it doesn't affect the newer roots right next to them.

It's very important in S/H to completely fill the container regularly. This washes out salts that accumulate in the LECA, and replaces the air at the roots. If you only top up the reservoir instead of flushing, salt concentrations will rise rapidly in the medium as the water evaporates.

I am fortunate to have a sunroom where I don't care about water on the concrete floor. When I water I have a pitcher in one hand. I like to pick up each pot with the other hand to water. I first tip out as much old water as I can. I then cover the two holes with the heel of my palm. I fill the pot from the pitcher. I move my hand from the two holes and let it drain. Then I set it down.

If I were growing in S/H in my house, I would have several options:

Carry each plant to a sink, tub or shower to water
Bring a bucket into the growing room and water over the bucket
Set the plants in a large tub on a shelf with a drain in the bottom

If you can't regularly fill the S/H container and let it drain, this might not be the growing method for you.

WaterWitchin · #7 07-25-2020, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GinaStarSeed

Ok. So. Most of mine did have rather extensive root systems . I have over 60 orchis I repotted though. So want to do want is needed to keep them healthy and vibrant, but not overwork myself since this switch was a lot already. But they did most have big root systems... thoughts?? Should I do as you said and pull them up to get the big dead root systems out then you think?

Also, I don't have a set up to easily flush every single time. So it is more sparse that I flush. How important is that? And how often?

Two months isn't enough time for much of anything. I'd wait a few more months for ones that had an extensive root system. When you see a big line of yuck along the pot, pull up, get the bad roots off, repot. Ones that didn't have huge root masses... give it a year and repot at proper time next year when new roots start. Not hard to repot something in semi-hydro back into semi-hydro. You're not gonna be picking out pieces of bark, sphag, perlite, etc, debris.

I'd never go more than seven to ten days to fully flush. And it depends on the water you're using. The less pure your water, the more important to do it more regularly. I use RO, and flush about once a week to ten days.

That's a lot of orchids to transition all at once, having maybe not grown that way before. You need a system unless you want to make endless trips back and forth to a sink.

GinaStarSeed · #8 07-25-2020, 10:40 PM

Thank you. I am quite good with orchids, and very comfortable switching this many at once. As I said I already had them in a semi-semi hydroponics system with water reservoirs and in leca medium for couple years now.. But switched them to a more enclosed system now making it more of the tradionally "semi-hydro" (still with my own switches though). I have a great system as far as being low maintenence and maintainable, and do not have to go back and forth to the sink. It is just the flushing that becomes more troublesome in the winter. I will likely flush them lots while they are outside in the summer. And then not flush them much at all in the winter as it is just too much effort when they are all indoors.

How long should water overflow out when flushing??

The main thing I am concerned about with waiting a long time to repot and get the dead roota out is when the new roots grow rapidly (which they already are, and those lock together around the leca, making a more solid mass out of the leca. Making it hard to get inside the middle to remove dead roots without disturbing the new roots. But perhaps I am over thinking it. Just not wanting a ton of rooting material in there, but seems the popular opinion is that is really doesn't matter so much.

🤔🤔🤔

---------- Post added at 10:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 PM ----------

also, I do always water top down through the medium, just wondering how much overflow should be happening to truly fluah them properly?

estación seca · #9 07-25-2020, 11:11 PM

Yes, it doesn't matter about the old dead roots in the pot. Unpotting to take them out is much riskier to the plant than leaving them in there.

When I water a S/H pot I fill it to the brim, then let it drain. I hold it with the holes plugged. That takes less water than filling from above with a hose or pitcher, when some water will be running out the holes while the water level rises in the pot to the rim. If it overflows the rim some of the LECA usually floats out, so I don't let it overflow the rim.

WaterWitchin · #10 07-26-2020, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GinaStarSeed

Thank you. I am quite good with orchids, and very comfortable switching this many at once. As I said I already had them in a semi-semi hydroponics system with water reservoirs and in leca medium for couple years now.. But switched them to a more enclosed system now making it more of the tradionally "semi-hydro" (still with my own switches though). I have a great system as far as being low maintenence and maintainable, and do not have to go back and forth to the sink. It is just the flushing that becomes more troublesome in the winter. I will likely flush them lots while they are outside in the summer. And then not flush them much at all in the winter as it is just too much effort when they are all indoors.

How long should water overflow out when flushing??

The main thing I am concerned about with waiting a long time to repot and get the dead roota out is when the new roots grow rapidly (which they already are, and those lock together around the leca, making a more solid mass out of the leca. Making it hard to get inside the middle to remove dead roots without disturbing the new roots. But perhaps I am over thinking it. Just not wanting a ton of rooting material in there, but seems the popular opinion is that is really doesn't matter so much.

🤔🤔🤔

---------- Post added at 10:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 PM ----------

also, I do always water top down through the medium, just wondering how much overflow should be happening to truly fluah them properly?

I guess I don't understand.What is "semi-semi hydro," growing in LECA, with a reservoir? Then switching to a more traditional semi-hydro, but "with your own switches?" What kind of switches?

And if they were growing in LECA with a reservoir for two years, why all the rotting roots now, two months later?

No, you don't "have" to remove dead roots. That's what I do. I do it as a matter of course when transitioning over, somewhere along the line depending on old root volume. Every time.

When I pull the plant, the LECA that sticks stays. I don't remove it. If it had a really large root system, usually the whole inside falls out, along with dead roots, and I trim up in that area.

I do disagree that taking it out and removing dead roots is harmful to the plant. No harm to plant, no setbacks. For me. When I have a plant that's a solid mass of roots I'm transitioning, it creates a huge rotting mass of roots. There's hardly any LECA in there when the transitioning. If I remove that mass of rotting roots later down the line it enables a more aerated area with LECA after repotting, and more roots will grow there, as opposed to around it.

Yes, the roots lost in transitioning will sooner or later flush out. Like in four or five years if it's a big mass of roots. That's why I take out later down the line, remove dead roots and repot.

As far as flushing, I pour water in the top, and keep pouring until it gets to the top of the pot. Then done until the next time. I don't cover the holes when filling, and I don't pick up the pot. Saves a bit of water, but it's also filling that pot with a mixture of fresh water plus the water in reservoir where the mineral build up resides. Not covering the holes provides for more buildup to be flushed, and the action of the water going out as it's coming in provides more aeration going down into the pot as it flushes.

If you have a great system in the summer for watering and flushing, and don't have to take to the sink, but it becomes cumbersome in the winter and you don't want to flush often because plants are inside, that's not a great setup unless they're only inside for a couple of months. Flushing regularly is an important part of growing semi-hydro.