How often flush the container

[WaterWitchin]

I checked out Orchid Room... can't watch her videos... too long, and I have a short attention span. And for some reason find it really hard to understand what she's saying. Both those are my issues, not hers.

Originally Posted by Ray

Too many people have ultimately failed by just refiling the reservoir. Flushing is essential.

That's quite a sweeping statement, Ray. And I don't think that's what fishmom was saying. I think she was saying this gal doesn't flush every time she waters, but does have a flushing schedule.

[thefish1337]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

I checked out Orchid Room... can't watch her videos... too long, and I have a short attention span. And for some reason find it really hard to understand what she's saying. Both those are my issues, not hers.



That's quite a sweeping statement, Ray. And I don't think that's what fishmom was saying. I think she was saying this gal doesn't flush every time she waters, but does have a flushing schedule.

I'm just providing information that suggests that flushing in semi-hydro isn't the end all be all. She grows some in self watering buckets where she takes synthetic fibers and strings them through the LECA to improve wicking throughout and to wick from the reservoir.

Here is how she waters the collection; if your attention span is bad feel free to skip through. I just want to show that you can modify semi-hydro and achieve really good results.

Here is her watering video (this will probably trigger Ray)

[Ray]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

That's quite a sweeping statement, Ray. And I don't think that's what fishmom was saying. I think she was saying this gal doesn't flush every time she waters, but does have a flushing schedule.

And in my “sweeping statement” I did not say that not doing it at every watering was “wrong”. What I did say was only topping up the reservoir and not flushing will set your plant up for failure.

That is true of setups using fabric wicks, too.

As the solution is wicked upward it carries the dissolved nutrients and plant wastes with it. As the water evaporates from the top, those are deposited as solids. Over time, they will become toxic.

That is true of all in-pot growing, no matter what the medium.

[thefish1337]

Originally Posted by Ray

And in my “sweeping statement” I did not say that not doing it at every watering was “wrong”. What I did say was only topping up the reservoir and not flushing will set your plant up for failure.

That is true of setups using fabric wicks, too.

As the solution is wicked upward it carries the dissolved nutrients and plant wastes with it. As the water evaporates from the top, those are deposited as solids. Over time, they will become toxic.

That is true of all in-pot growing, no matter what the medium.

Nobody is arguing that flushing isn't required. Additionally, nobody is arguing that toxic wastes won't build up over time. The discussion is whether you need to flush every watering in semi-hydro and I think that your opinion on it is so dogmatic that it's borderline unhelpful.

I had some dark times a few years ago and had my collection fall under poor care, at times I was simply refilling the reservoir on my semi-hydro plants for months on end. The rest of my plants were severely underwatered. My Rossioglossum grande bloomed and actually thrived under the regimen despite this toxic wastes and salts boogeyman- I never saw black root tips and my growth rate was similar to when I was caring for it under an 'ideal' regimen.

There are other ways to reduce salt buildup or the negative effects. Proper pH, microbial inoculants and use of silicates are some that come to my mind.

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by thefish1337

Nobody is arguing that flushing isn't required. Additionally, nobody is arguing that toxic wastes won't build up over time. The discussion is whether you need to flush every watering in semi-hydro and I think that your opinion on it is so dogmatic that it's borderline unhelpful.

I had some dark times a few years ago and had my collection fall under poor care, at times I was simply refilling the reservoir on my semi-hydro plants for months on end. The rest of my plants were severely underwatered. My Rossioglossum grande bloomed and actually thrived under the regimen despite this toxic wastes and salts boogeyman- I never saw black root tips and my growth rate was similar to when I was caring for it under an 'ideal' regimen.

There are other ways to reduce salt buildup or the negative effects. Proper pH, microbial inoculants and use of silicates are some that come to my mind.

Agreed. And I’ve never flushed every time I water. And never had problems. In a perfect world I flush once a week, and top up about halfway through the week. Usually with RO. And I fertiluze wvery week.

That’s the goal of my perfect world. Rarely does it match my reality for more than a couple of weeks. It’s more like flush every ten days to two weeks the half year they’re inside, topping up a couple times in between. My fertilizing is worse.

I went through a couple of dark years a ways back. I just turned on a hose and they got tap water, with high TDS. Except for four or five plants... they got a glug or two from bottled water. Nothing missed a beat.

Granted, in time, especially with my hard water, I got some mineral deposits. Pretty easy to dump out the LECA and plunk back in, refreshing what fell off.

I’ve grown many other plants for years and yes, you have to replace potting soil regardless of whether you use a wick. (for me, wicks are worthless, but more power to those who want to use them.)

I know you didn’t literally say not flushing each time was “wrong” Ray. But you are intimating plants not flushed each time will fail, over time. To me, saying the same... a sweeping statement. I disagree and have the poor regime of flushing to prove it. I believe that’s the dogma thefish is speaking of that’s borderline unhelpful. Culture of orchids isn’t a my way or the highway regardless of the method of growing, including semi-hydro.

[Ray]

That's right WW, I never said flushing had to be done at every watering, but I do believe that it was better to do so. "Intimation" is in the mind of the reader, no? Let me clarify, then:

In my opinion, which is based upon some science, some logic, and lots of observation, it is best to flush an orchid - no matter the culture technique used - at every watering, and preferably with a high-volume, low pressure "rain head" on the hose, as it achieves several things that other watering methods do not:

► It wets the potting medium very thoroughly throughout its volume.

► In doing so, it flushes the medium, removing mineral residues, plant wastes, small media decomposition products and some biofilm.

►It also will maintain it's moist atmosphere longer.

► Such flushing slows the buildup of stuff that can eventually become toxic to the plants.

► If the flushing is done more frequently, before the medium has had a chance to dry, the greater the percentage of residues are removed and the more pristine the medium stays

► It wets the root system more thoroughly, as well, giving the plant more raw materials for growth.

► If that routine flushing is done with dilute nutrient solution, it gets more food, too.

► It draws fresh air through the medium, oxygenating it better than ambient air movement can achieve.

Must a pot be flushed at every watering? No, but we should recognize that there are some negatives associated with not doing so, and the less frequently they are flushed, the more those negatives will rear their ugly heads. Like almost everything in orchid growing, there is a gradient from "that's great" to "avoid it like the plague". My preference is the former; not flushing at all is the latter - you are welcomed to choose your own location on that spectrum.

[DirtyCoconuts]

I thought this thread was called “do you flush every time” and assumed it had to do with toilet use.....

[WaterWitchin]

Okay, Ray, I understand what you're saying, but let's go back to the beginning. A new member (and new to SH) asked the question...

Originally Posted by B727

I'M new to the forum and rather new to S/H. Started about 1 month ago to convert some plants of my small collection. I care for them with Rain Mix and Kelpak. Til now all is fine and they are still happy.

Some questions:

I was astonished how fast the water evaporates or is used by the plants, I have to refill the reservoir every 2 to 3 days. How often do you flush the reservoir?

Two holes in the container, am I right that the second hole is just for safety in case one hole is blocked by leca?

You replied that it had to be done each time. And our new member asked:

Originally Posted by B727

But isn't it enough to refill every 2 days and flush maybe after every 2 weeks?

And you reply with "No," not in your opinion. Then DC says the beauty of SH is you can flush daily if you want.

Then OP says:

Originally Posted by B727

You are right DC, I wanted to know how often I HAVE to flush at least, at a minimum.

So TheFish and I give OP other ideas and ways to go about it. You come back with a simple "flushing is essential," which is back to your original... should flush each time you water. And ignoring the fact others do it differently with no problems. That's how the sweeping statement verbiage from me came to be.

And never giving an opinion that one "might" be able to accomplish the same thing without totally flushing a plant each time in SH. Or that trying something horribly detrimental like using wicking (which I said I don't think works, but so be it for those who choose to do so) and which some folks do, with success.

No, I don't think intimation is always in the eye of the reader. I think sometimes it's in the mind of the writer. And I believe you intimate if flushing isn't done other than on an every time basis, bad things are sooner or later going to eventually happen, and you're playing a craps game or Russian roulette with your orchids. I totally disagree with that statement.

And most folks also can't flush with a high volume, rain shower head, regardless of SH, bark, or rock, each time they water a plant. They either don't have that set-up because they're growing in a house and don't have the capability of using that, and/or have too many orchids growing inside to take them somewhere to do so each time they water.

I KNOW you think flushing each and every time is best. I don't think it's that crucial, at all, to flush each and every time water is added. And it appears our OP, new to SH, is wanting to know what he can get away with without flushing each and every time. Without harm to the plants. Thus, other opinions.

[estación seca]

I live in a climate with very low humidity at times (under 10%.) I have grown in S/H in my house, which has humidity around 30%-40% depending on how many canines are here. I also have plants in S/H in my sunroom, which has an evaporative cooler. The humidity there is in the 60% range. I fill each S/H container to the brim (flush) at each watering.

The plants in S/H grow better the more frequently I can water and flush them. I wish I had time to flush daily. I agree it's not a good idea to avoid flushing, instead only topping up the reservoir.

I grow mostly in a sunroom with a concrete floor. I don't mind runoff on the floor. I understand flushing can be a lot of work if the growing area doesn't have a waterproof floor.

If you are looking to water less frequently than is best for S/H, consider learning to grow in long-fiber sphagnum moss. It is possible to stretch watering intervals longer with sphagnum than with other methods. However, growing in sphagnum is very different from growing in other media.

You never soak the moss. You lightly water just the top of the moss. The water evenly diffuses through the moss. It stays lightly moist. When the pot is dry, you water again. Very few orchids use enough water to be happy in sphagnum that gets soaked.

People must keep their plants in sphagnum separate from other plants. It is too easy to overwater the plants in sphagnum.

[B727]

Thank you for your post WW, that is exactly the answer to my initial question.

@Ray
Don't get me wrong Ray, I appreciate your knowledge and your advice. But your words sound to me that I will send my plants direct to hell if I just refill the reservoir and don't flush at every watering.

Thank you all for this discussion. I think there are some good points especially for S/H newbies.