What in the World is a Grex?

[emmajs243]

Thanks Ray!! Totally never thought about the genetic diversity aspect when breeding with a sibling! Very helpful to know!!! All of it is helpful to know actually!

And yes...finding the good breeders are probably the toughest part of being new to the orchid world!!! and figuring out what standards to hold when receiving plants to be able to classify sellers/breeders as good or not....THAT is the true tough part! Once you know what your standards should be when receiving new plants then at least it's just comes to trial and error!!

And waterwitchin! Ray will have to answer your question too! Or someone more experienced then me! BUT! I obviously understand the term inbreeding however....what is "line breeding"???

[Ray]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

So similar to inbreeding and line breeding, right?

Sort-of, although those are terms I've only heard when breeding animals, where there is no such thing a "selfing".

I guess "inbreeding" is akin to a sibling cross, and "line breeding" would be an outcross using an unrelated parent of the same species or hybrid.

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by Ray

Sort-of, although those are terms I've only heard when breeding animals, where there is no such thing a "selfing".

I guess "inbreeding" is akin to a sibling cross, and "line breeding" would be an outcross using an unrelated parent of the same species or hybrid.

I've never heard of it other than animal breeding either. Was asking the question regarding orchids, so I could compare it to something I do know and understand to assure I was "getting it."

And that I think answers my question. Similar, yet different. Gracias!

[camille1585]

Here's a related question on something I've long wondered; why is an orchid hybrid called a grex, while for many (most?) other ornamental plants a hybrid is called a cultivar? Is it just a specificity of orchid nomenclature or is there some finer level distinction between the 2? Or am I missing something? Nomenclature is not my forte.

[emmajs243]

I see where your coming from waterwitchin! I was going to say.....what in the world is line breeding with orchids???? I would say the main difference between the two in my opinion, in breeding is normally considered a bad thing and causes defects as well as other hereditary issues and with orchids it sounds like it's actually a good thing when it's done correctly by someone who knows what they are doing!

And Camille! Once again....I am sure Ray will weigh in and answer your question BUT, let's test what I have learned!!! from my understanding...and from Ray and others helping me to understand what a grex and cultivar are....

Well and maybe I'm wrong here...I know that a cultivar epiphet...or name...is given to a specific plant within a species or grex. So when you go shopping for orchids and see like...Cattleya Trianae 'A.C. Burrage' AM/AOS. A.C Burrage is the cultivar name and they ARE referring to one, single plant that has won an award of merit. So you are shopping mericlones of that cultivar or that single existing plant.

On the other hand, a grex is a broader description. In plain terms, when a hybrid is created and let's say they make a hundred plants of that cross, all 100 plants that I would consider to be like siblings, are a grex! Grex basically meaning, all the plants within the grex are from the same two parent orchids. But let's say the parents were, Dahls Grace 'Peach Sorbet' x Kure Beach 'Lenette #2'. Peach sorbet is one single plant and Lenette #2 is also referring to one single plant who both were the cultivars to a hubdred baby plants that are all in the same grex!

Now, all those numbers of baby orchids are totally made up just for an example but does that help at all???

I don't know why other ornamental plants have a different classification though!

And Ray, although I put it in very simple terms, hopefully I have learned right from all you guys!!

---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

Oh AND Camille! So nice to know I am not alone on being lost on orchid nomenclature!!

[camille1585]

The most embarassing thing is that I studied horticulture in my first 2 years of college, but after a good night sleep I'm going 'duh, you're right', cultivar is the name between apostrophes. But that still begs the question of why I have never heard of the word grex until I got into orchids?? I don't recall any instance of it being used for other plants...

I guess I got confused since many commercial cultivar names of horticultural crops don't include the apostrophes, making it read as a hybrid name.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by camille1585

I guess I got confused since many commercial cultivar names of horticultural crops don't include the apostrophes, making it read as a hybrid name.

Totally agree! It can be quite confusing!

The general hybrid cross name - that says something about the cross parentage, or parents that were crossed - is basically 'grex'.

The cultivar name is basically something like clonal name, right?

So --- a hybrid cross is made between two parents ----- and the group or collection of the results/products of the hybrid cross is known as a 'grex'.

And each individual off-spring of that cross or grex is a cultivar. And if somebody wants to register the name of an individual offspring cultivar plant, and if they also produce clones or copies of it (eg. mericlone or plant division), then the registration results in an official cultivar (or clonal) name .... the cultivar name (clonal name) having the apostrophes.

Eg. Rlc. Xanthette × C. Ann Follis is a hybrid crossing .... and the 'grex' name associated with this hybrid cross is Memoria Helen Brown. The seedpod gives rise to a whole bunch of plants from this crossing - and each individual seedling plant (cultivar) that can be grown from the seeds of that pod will have their own particular features.

And a particularly wonderful (and unique) cultivar ie. individual off-spring from this hybrid cross is 'Sweet Afton'.

So one of the individual plants that became cloned and sold was Rlc. Memoria Helen Brown 'Sweet Afton', where Memoria Helen Brown is the cross/grex name, and 'Sweet Afton' is the cultivar/clonal name.

It used to be called Blc. Memoria Helen Brown 'Sweet Afton', until the re-classification to Rlc.

That's how I think it is. Feel free to add corrections.

If anyone hasn't seen this plant's flower, then just click here: Rlc. Memoria Helen Brown 'Sweet Afton' which is well matched to an AOC awarded one seen (here), as well as the original plant seen here.

Unfortunately, there are plants being sold or passed around having orchid tags with the above name written on it, but the flowers of these question-mark plants have significantly different appearance (eg. lip shape, colour, petal features etc) when compared with the original plant - pointing to cases of mistaken identity, mutation, false-labeling, misrepresentation etc.

For example - the plant seen here (click here) is unlikely to be what the owner believes it to be. It probably has the correct 'grex' name, but has the wrong cultivar/clonal name. The serrated edges around the lip, and plastic-looking petals are not seen in the original plant.

Another example of mistaken identity is the first image of: (click here) - perhaps correct grex name, but wrong clonal name. That is - it could be of grex Memoria Helen Brown, but is unlikely to be the cultivar 'Sweet Afton'.

[Fairorchids]

Orchid hybrid (grex) names are different from many other plants. Orchids are registered with the RHS registrar. Once registered, that name applies to all plants with that parentage, i.e. :
Vanda coerulea x Vanda sanderiana = V. Rothschildiana.
Vanda sanderiana x Vanda coerulea = V. Rothschildiana.
V. coerulea fma. alba x V. sanderiana fma. alba = V. Rothschildiana.
Etc.

Any further identification of plants with special characteristics is handled via clonal names, which are are not registered anywhere - unless the plants earns a flower quality award from the AOS or another national orchid society.

In comparison, in the Hemerocallis (Day Lily) world, each unique plant can be registered with a different name, whether the parents are the same or not. Thus, there are no clonal names.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by camille1585

I guess I got confused since many commercial cultivar names of horticultural crops don't include the apostrophes, making it read as a hybrid name.

Thats a real problem with "commodity" orchid growers, too.

Even worse, in GB, when Vuylestekeara Cambria 'Plush' FCC/RHS became mass produced and widely distributed, folks started calling any Oncidiinae cross a "cambria".

[emmajs243]

SouthPark! Your interpretation seems right to me! FYI! I totally agree about your photos not being clones! Like you said, maybe in the same grex but not clones...the first photo is a beautiful plant!!!!

Honestly....whatever plant the very last photo is of....ALSO a gorgeous bloom!