Naming of new hybrids

[Des]

I've often wondered why it is necessary to register new names of hybrids with the RHS. Why can't each country just have it's own register and prefix the name with the country's initials or something like that? Having to apply to the RHS for registration also is quite costly for hybridizers living in a country with a weaker currency. It would cost us here in SA about R160. to register with the RHS, which is more than the plant is actually worth. I'm pretty sure that this is the reason why we see so many NOIDS being sold as the names just get to be too cumbersome to put onto a label. I often think it is quite a pity when I see a really good cybidium or cattleya being sold as a NOID as there are times when the flower is so good I would like to use it for hybridizing. Can anyone else comment?

[minicatt]

I would have to disagree with you. We are fortunate that the RHS is the official registrar for orchid hybrids worldwide. If we had each country register orchids there would be many duplicate names for the same hybrid. Keep in mind that there are hundred's of thousands hybrids that have already been registered.
For the USA, the fee is $12.50 which i don't think is too much for a breeder to pay.
I just registered 4 crosses, 2 of my own and 2 for a friend that i received AOS awards for.

My 2 cents....
Peter.

[Ray]

For the USA, the fee is $12.50 which i don't think is too much for a breeder to pay.

And that's with a "weaker currency" these days!

I agree totally with Peter. There needs to be a single authority, or it would wreak havoc on the entire hybridizing community.

As it is, there are situations in which the same hybrid has been registered with different names.

[Des]

Thanks for your comments guys , I understand what you are saying, and to be truthful I am a bit of a traditionlist myself and would prefer to keep the status quo . But with countries economies in a state of turmoil at the moment ( and i wonder who started the ball rolling ) I Think we are seeing a breakdown of the current system . I am seeing more and more plants being sold without their names and this is happening at some of our nurseries and larger stores. From what i have read from the various threads on this forum ,it would appear as though this is also the case in USA . We have a saying here in Afrca " When the USA gets the economic sniffles we get flu .when the USA gets flu we get double pneumonia " And right now the USA has double pneumonia !!! At the moment To buy one Dollar we need 8.13 Rands To buy one Pound we need 16.3 Rands So as far as the hybridizing community goes , something will have give. By now both of you guys are shedding tears over our predicament

[Des]

While we are on the subject of names and the RHS __ can you imagine changing the name of your Laelia Purpurata to Sophronitis Purpurata I just cant get that one through my head !My labels won't be changed anytime soon !

[minicatt]

Des, yes i agree with your last comment on the name changes. I'm not changing my labels either. Sort of a protest i guess. All of the intergeneric nothogenera have changed too. Drives me crazy as I used to know what was in the background of Slc. or Potinara etc.
Oh well... I really hope the naming confusion does not put one more strike against the orchid hobby!
Peter.

[Orchidflowerchild]

I think that the prevalence of noids has less to do with the price of registration and more to do with the fact that these plants are being bred and cloned for the pot plant market. Why bother to put a name tag in a pot or even keep serious records about the hybrid names, when all you are producing is essentially living boquets? Most people toss NOID orchids after they bloom. It is not about registration costs so much as it is that NOIDs are marketed to people who don't particularly care to take the effort and time to actually grow orchids, but just want some colour or home decortion. It's the same reason that you rarely see bromeliads or poinsettias in the stores with more than "Hybrid poinsettia" or whatever on the tag.

For my part, I'm an orchid snob. I collect high-quality plants, mostly species. The sort of things I grow just aren't sold as NOIDs very often. Even if they were, I refuse to buy NOIDs. Supporting the producers of NOIDs is what is slowly killing the orchid hybridization industry in the west. True collectors tend not to purchase NOIDs, but most people are growing for pretty flowers. The small-time hybridizers from whom most innovation originates just cannot compete on a commercial scale with a taiwanese cloning operation that pumps out 10,000 clones of a plant in three years.

Meanwhile, as for the factual expense of registration, I imagine most countries would consider that a legitimate business expense for an orchid breeder. For a commercial breeder, it is something that can be written off on the taxes.

-Cj

[goodgollymissmolly]

Cj, thanks for the great post!! It seems difficult to get some to go beyond the pot plant stage of the orchid hobby. There is a more advanced world out there which I would hope everyone would eventually advance to.

Let's talk about plant naming. It appears there might be some confusion on the subject. Plant naming conventions are controlled by the International Convention of Botanical Nomenclature. They are the rules for naming plants. The rules are established and revised every few years by a meeting of the international committee.

Under ICBN are established ICRA's (International Cultivar Registration Authorities). These are the groups that register cultivars. For example, The American Hosta Society is the ICRA for Hostas and the American Hemerocallis Society is the ICRA for Hemerocallis (Daylily). The RHS is the ICRA for Orchids. The ICRA manages the registrations to assure cultivar names conform to the codes, there are no duplicates, etc.

The ICRA has no authority to move plants around within genuses or to change the names of species (or even horticultural cultivars unless they made some dastardly mistake initially).

Botanical names originate from taxonomic authorities, usually specialized botanists who follow rigorous rules of science in establishing and revising the ranks and assignments of taxonomy. As knowledge and techniques advance, so do assignments.

The ICRA's are slow to follow taxonomy changes to be sure they are stable and not challenged by other scientists. However, unless the ICRA's eventually make changes the horticultural interests will diverge from taxonomy science over time.

So don't blame RHS for changing plant names including genus designations. They are just following the botanical system usually several years behind the science.

This international system is vital for all of us to have the same naming system for plants so we can communicate.

Those pot plant nurseries (all over the world including the US) make a lot of money selling cheap plants at big box stores, but they do us all a disservice by ignoring the registration system. There is no organized system for those pot plants. Before you buy another NOID, consider that you are getting a cheap cultivar and it is not worth even what you paid for it because there is no record of what it is. You are just contributing to chaos for no reason but cheap pot plants. Yeah, I 'm a snob, too! Glad I'm not alone, Cj.

Quote from ICBN:

"The rules that govern scientific naming in botany (including phycology and mycology) are revised at Nomenclature Section meetings at successive International Botanical Congresses."

[Jo Ann]

Just curious how many of us here can afford to be “Orchid Snobs” ? I can’t… but I still enjoy growing what I can…I would love to get to the advanced stage beyond pot plants but unfortunately I have what is called a family and a mortgage so it’s a little hard to convince the bank that you would rather spend your money on a fancy species Orchid then to pay them…I haven’t been able to convince the family that food should be considered an option either not to mention gas prices and so on and so on…I guess I am a contributor to the hybrid chaos…

sorry Des if this got off your topic of naming hybrids…

[Des]

Don't be sorry Jo Ann, I just love reading the different points of view. It is what goes to make up the the human race ! If we were all the same , oh how boring life would be !! and I also love Alice in wonderland I think it is a must read for all kids and adults for that matter I plan to read it to my granddaughter when she is old enough, at present she is on Dr Zues
Guys, this thread is starting to get really interesting don't stop now , more comments please !!