Learn to say (or type) it right!

[Ray]

The trouble is that classical Latin, church Latin, and botanical Latin all differ.

In classical Latin in the US, I learned that:

ae - "eye"
i - "ee"
ii - "ee-ee" (not one, longer "ee")

making mariae "Mayr-ee-eye" and lowii "Low-ee-ee".



Then, if we REALLY want to go beyond that, there's the pronunciation of genera named after people....

[cbuchman]

Originally Posted by Ray

The trouble is that classical Latin, church Latin, and botanical Latin all differ.

In classical Latin in the US, I learned that:

ae - "eye"
i - "ee"
ii - "ee-ee" (not one, longer "ee")

making mariae "Mayr-ee-eye" and lowii "Low-ee-ee".



Then, if we REALLY want to go beyond that, there's the pronunciation of genera named after people....

Let's not go there! I've really enjoyed working my way through the pronunciation guide that is in the AOS' Orchids Magazine. They are often tongue twisters! I see it as a challenge to work through it. But... I often don't remember it when I'm done!

[gnathaniel]

Originally Posted by ALToronto

In the US, you would not be out of place pronouncing these names the Anglo way, just as you would not be out of place talking about pounds and ounces, feet and inches, and degrees Fahrenheit. But if you find yourself at an international conference, or speaking with someone from another country, they would not be able to understand you.

While I agree there are differences in how speakers of particular languages tend to approach spoken botanical nomenclature, it's not necessarily internally consistent within language groups and amounts more to cultural/phonemic preference (incl. sometimes btw people at different institutions within the same country) than to any kind of official divide. Entirely anecdotal, but my experience of lifelong interaction with both US and non-US scientists suggests that failures of understanding based on pronunciation of Latin nomenclature are pretty rare, and that outside of a pedagogical context most scientists (academic ones, anyway) don't seem to 'sweat it' much about this. I've had way more orchid people than botanists try to correct my pronunciation...

But back to the original point of this thread, thanks for posting it, Ray! The correct methods of writing orchid names are not only simple to remember and apply, but also concisely convey important information.

One minor change I'll suggest is using the more precise term 'clone' rather than 'cultivar' to refer to what we convey in single quotes in orchid names. While the terms are often used interchangeably, clone better describes what we're doing with the single-quote names, which with orchids almost always refer to a genetic individual or asexually-propagated strain rather than to a more genetically diverse sexually-propagated strain. Cultivar or 'form' is better used to describe what most growers inaccurately call 'variety' (which as far as I understand more accurately refers to botanically described distinct wild strains rather than those created or propagated largely in captivity), as in Phal. violacea cv. (or fma) coerulea, C. intermedia fma. (cv.) aquinii, etc...

To illustrate the clone/cultivar distinction, a line-bred coerulea strain of C. intermedia is accurately called a cultivar (portmanteau of 'cultivated variety', basically any group that can be propagated in a way that maintains its difference from a broader species or hybrid grex) and will have within it genetically unique individuals that might be individually designated by clonal names like 'Big Blue', etc. While such individuals can be propagated by asexual method and thus accurately called cultivars in the broad sense, using the broader term conveys less info and obscures important differences between 'clone' (single, genetically unique individual within a grex or cultivar of a grex) and 'cultivar' (as above, any propagated strain more or less genetically distinct from the broader grex).

TL;DR:

cultivar = horticulturally distinct strain within a captive species or hybrid population-- few orchid names include this info, and when they do it's usually incorrectly called 'variety'

clone = single, genetically unique individual or clonal copy of that individual, and the only info we should ordinarily put in single quotes following an orchid name

Just my , you all feel free to disagree.

[euplusia]

As we deal with dead languages (Latin and ancient Greek), I think that spelling and writing is more important than pronounciation.
Quiltergal asked about the difference between 'variety' and 'form', or 'var.' and 'fma.' To my knowledge the older 'variety' is more recently replaced by 'forma'. But strictly then it should be followed by an feminine adjective? For example 'Phaius flavus forma alba' OR 'Phaius flavus forma albus' ? I am not sure.
One thing that we find typically in the US literature is an extra 'i' in Cattleya trianae. The man was named 'Triana', trianae is genitive case, and so trianaei doesn't make sense.
I am really willing to forgive a lot of wrong typing, but missing labels or mislabeled plants in commercial sale are a plague.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by ALToronto

It's how anglophones pronounce it. That doesn't make it right.

Well damn! I guess if someone doesn't know what I'm saying...I'll just spell it out. At least I still have that.

[The Orchid Boy]

Originally Posted by Ray

The trouble is that classical Latin, church Latin, and botanical Latin all differ.

In classical Latin in the US, I learned that:

ae - "eye"
i - "ee"
ii - "ee-ee" (not one, longer "ee")

making mariae "Mayr-ee-eye" and lowii "Low-ee-ee".



Then, if we REALLY want to go beyond that, there's the pronunciation of genera named after people....

Interesting. I learned -ii was pronounced ee-eye.

[ALToronto]

In Latin, each letter is pronounced one way and one way only. So the letter i is pronounced 'ee' in every case, whatever the combination of letters. Much simpler than English rules of pronounciation, and much more similar to Spanish.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by The Orchid Boy

Interesting. I learned -ii was pronounced ee-eye.

That's Nebraska Latin.

I recall one book we had "The Living Language" (hahaha) had stories about the "puellae et pueri" drinking "Cocam Colam" at their "picus nicus".

[cbuchman]

Originally Posted by Ray

That's Nebraska Latin.

I recall one book we had "The Living Language" (hahaha) had stories about the "puellae et pueri" drinking "Cocam Colam" at their "picus nicus".

Boy , you got a better deal than I did. I had to read the Gallic Wars - facilitating ... toothpicks needed to keep the eyes open.

[hcastil3]

I must revert back to my native tongue!!!!!!!!!!!