Amazing New Fertilizer

[Ray]

Originally Posted by DavidCampen

So the human body is not loaded with aluminum and silicon even though the environment is because these elements are not essential to the human body. So by the fact that orchids contain higher levels of potassium than the environment we can make an inductive argument that high levels of potassium are important to the functioning of orchids.

So by that argument, high levels of fat are important to the functioning of people???


Ray Barkalow
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[DavidCampen]

Originally Posted by SJF

This shouldn't be getting so nasty. We should have more respect for each other. There is a way to disagree without insulting another.

I was not aware that anyone in this thread was insulting anyone else. Perhaps you could give examples.

---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Ray

So by that argument, high levels of fat are important to the functioning of people???

We could go on all day trading tenuous analogies to argue one way or another.

[SJF]

[QUOTE=DavidCampen;569445]I was not aware that anyone in this thread was insulting anyone else. Perhaps you could give examples.[COLOR="Silver"]
---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------


I am not looking to go back and forth with you.

Have a good day.

[DavidCampen]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

David - what fertilising regime would you recommend ?

I prepare my own formulations so that I can get exactly what I want but most people would not want to bother with that. Before that I used DynaGro OrchidPro. I water exclusively with RO water so it is important that I add back a full suite of nutrients; especially calcium and magnesium that are missing in formulations not made for RO water. The OrchidPro gave me some concens because I would find a lot of crystalling precipitate in the bottle and I wondered if a lot of the calcium in the formulation was being lost to this precipitate. The MSU type formulations seem good except that I have concern about the homogeneity of the blends. The standard garden store 10-10-10 water soluble formulations are good but if you are using RO water you need to supplement with calcium, magnesium and sulfur and minor elements.

[tucker85]

I, for one, enjoy these discussions about fertilizers and supplements. That's why I joined this forum, to learn about what culture techniques and products are working for other growers. I think some very good points have been made in this thread. One point that GoodGollyMissMolly made is an excellent one. When it's springtime and all the orchids are putting out new growth and new roots, it's very easy to believe you've discovered some magic formula. I've fallen into that line of thinking myself.
Another trap I think we fall into is that, when we find something that works really well for us, we try to figure out why it's working. That can sometimes lead us down the wrong road and it isn't helpful. The same thing happens when I think I've figured out whats wrong with my golf swing.
All I can say is, if something is working well for you, keep using it and also let the rest of us know so we can decide whether to try it or not.

[naoki]

Originally Posted by DavidCampen

I prepare my own formulations so that I can get exactly what I want but most people would not want to bother with that. Before that I used DynaGro OrchidPro. I water exclusively with RO water so it is important that I add back a full suite of nutrients; especially calcium and magnesium that are missing in formulations not made for RO water. The OrchidPro gave me some concens because I would find a lot of crystalling precipitate in the bottle and I wondered if a lot of the calcium in the formulation was being lost to this precipitate. The MSU type formulations seem good except that I have concern about the homogeneity of the blends. The standard garden store 10-10-10 water soluble formulations are good but if you are using RO water you need to supplement with calcium, magnesium and sulfur and minor elements.

So did you test effectiveness of your formulation statistically? Similarly it would be nice to test K-Lite with controlled experiments as ALTronto proposed. Some of the logical path may be a little jumpy, but it is something worth testing since lots of people claim that it works.

With a tangential note, I didn't know that publication in AOS magazine has to be based on science. I thought that it is just a hobbyist magazine, and the articles (they call it "essays") are not peer-reviewed. Majority of their articles appear to be something where people talking about their experiences. So I enjoyed reading about Rick's experiences, and his exploration. I agree that it could be dangerous for certain types of people.

[The Orchid Boy]

I'm not too scientific but the stuff in Ricks article seemed convincing to me, about the tests in nature with N-P-K-Ca-Mg. Until someone can point me to a science article that proves there is more K in nature, I'm going to except this as fact. And as Naomi said, articles in the Orchids magazine are hobbyist essays. And remember scientist and astronomers of old who were thought of as crazy when they said the earth was not the center of the universe. So maybe this K-lite will prove to be crazy, maybe not. I'll take the risk.

[DavidCampen]

Originally Posted by The Orchid Boy

Until someone can point me to a science article that proves there is more K in nature, I'm going to except this as fact.

http://ican.csme.utah.edu/wp-content...ordan-1980.pdf

There are a number more.

[ronaldhanko]

Originally Posted by goodgollymissmolly

Ron,

Masdevallias always look pretty in the early spring when growing new foliage. Your anecdotal observation is simultaneous with this spring growth.

Wait until late summer to evaluate this stuff. That's when masdies suffer yellow leaves and fungal spots. My masdies are given as good a position in the GH as I can provide....right against the cooler wall. At this time of year they are pristine. Typically in late summer and fall they are pretty bad looking (I live in the south where the cooler works poorly in the late summer with high humidity).

Interestingly, 16 months ago I switched 100 plants to Orchid Gallery cool pots and the foliage looks much better based on that one year+ of observation. I changed nothing else, including the MSU fertilizer and rainwater. One season is not sufficient to prove anything, but it's encouraging.

I agree with David. AOS made a serious mistake in publishing the K-Lite article without a disclaimer that they do not endorse the product and it's weak scientific backing. The only evidence of success are some anecdotal observations from a few people. I know two superb growers who have been using the K-Lite for over a year. One had problems that his anecdotal observation noticed. The other has seen no change at all. Both grow multiple genera to perfection and have awards to prove it.

I was disappointed that AOS published the article because it lacked any scientific statistical rigor to back up the claims. No statistical evaluation of control populations was presented. Unfortunately the man on the street is a poor observer. When presented with change many see it as positive if it was presented that way. Reference the famous GE experiment where they turned out half the lights and productivity went up defying conventional wisdom.

K-Lite may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but until someone performs a statistically designed, controlled, and evaluated experiment to confirm it, it remains a theory. I think AOS understands it made a boo-boo because the following month Orchids published an article by the education committee on conventional fertilization that never mentioned K-Lite. Claiming potassium is rare in nature is questionable because it is the seventh most abundant element on earth. Phosphorus, on the other hand, is only the 11th most most abundant but it isn't cited as rare.

I thought about contacting AOS about my concerns with the K-Lite article and decided they already had enough problems. I also like Greg Allikas and the publication committee members with whom I am acquainted. So I ignored it. Some people are going to believe in chemical magic no matter what I do anyway so why fight it.

If you want to keep up with fertilization theories the pot literature is the place to look. Those folks really believe in better things for better living through chemistry.

Molly,
Now you are making assumptions. The problems I was having had nothing to do with seasonal changes. These were problems of long standing that the new seasonal growth flush was not correcting. Over a period of 4-5 years these plants and others were gradually declining in spite of the fact that I have over 30 years of growing experience. The symptoms exactly matched the information in the article and the fertilizer corrected the problem in months.


---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 PM ----------

I am really amused. I found information that seemed to address long-standing problems I was having and that offered a solution that worked for me. I thought I'd share what I discovered and it has turned into a massive argument.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by ronaldhanko

I am really amused. I found information that seemed to address long-standing problems I was having and that offered a solution that worked for me. I thought I'd share what I discovered and it has turned into a massive argument.

Only because some folks are closed-minded to stuff that is not steeped in old information.