a blue real phal

[Becka]

Originally Posted by Vanda lover

Becka, getting the seeds for free wouldn't accomplish anything other than costing the man the price of the seeds and shipping. Germinating them isn't as simple as putting them in the ground, as he implies.
We have attempted to put in a complaint with ebay but they make it difficult

I understand what you are saying.

[NYCorchidman]

This is supposed to be a thread about a possibility of creating blue phals, and it is turning into a GMO stuff.

People can have different opinions, but I personally do not see it wrong as someone earlier pointed out.

"Playing" around with currently available (although not perfect) technologies to make something we want is what people have done all the time.

Mixing different genera of orchids, for example, for the purpose of creating something we desire (say, colors, shapes, or temperature tolerance) is "right" because breeding is "natural" method? hmmm

Well, some of these genera that are "forced" by us to be mixed with, they do not ever see each other in the nature anyway. So how is that natural I wonder?

I only find issues with GM when results are clearly negative ( as in the example of gold fish that was mentioned by Becka, and many dogs people love are UNATURALLY bred to carry certain traits people desire and many suffer genetic diseases) or not proven to be safe, yet GM products are being pushed for the sake of selling them.

Now, protecting threatened natural habitats and so forth, I don't see how that is related to GM?
Totally different topics, which I support by the way.
I'm against people who go around and "collect" orchids or anything else in the nature, especially if those collected things are endangered of course.

[Call_Me_Bob]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Mixing different genera of orchids, for example, for the purpose of creating something we desire (say, colors, shapes, or temperature tolerance) is "right" because breeding is "natural" method? hmmm

Well, some of these genera that are "forced" by us to be mixed with, they do not ever see each other in the nature anyway. So how is that natural I wonder?

I would say it's natural because it does not involve using a lab to introduce color or other things.

[NYCorchidman]

Then, that's only natural according to your own definition of the term "natural".
Different genera that will not meet each other in the wild is not natural no matter how you want to see it, at least to the general meaning of the word natural. Don't you think???

I do!

Plus, what's wrong with using lab??

Cultivated orchids are grown (well, germination and seedlings culture) at lab settings.

Are you against that also??

[Call_Me_Bob]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Then, that's only natural according to your own definition of the term "natural".
Different genera that will not meet each other in the wild is not natural no matter how you want to see it, at least to the general meaning of the word natural. Don't you think???

I do!

Plus, what's wrong with using lab??

Cultivated orchids are grown (well, germination and seedlings culture) at lab settings.

Are you against that also??

That is exactly right! It is MY own definition of natural! Everyone has different opinions, and that's perfectly fine. I'm just stating mine!


Nothing wrong with using a lab to sterilize things and grow them. What I don't like is when people use the lab to add things. Such as genetic material.

For people to create something they think is cool then great, good for them! I just hope, as I said above, that it's not something that will breed true or be able to be bred into different lines. Because that would artificially shortcut what we as breeders have been trying to do by conventional means, not by adding genes from dayflowers.

[NYCorchidman]

I see your point.

As breeders' viewpoint, you may not like this idea of gene mixing stuff, but as technology advances, you just can't fight against it.

Humans began breeding animals and crops whether intentionally or accidentally, for a long time, but with advanced science came more advanced methods. isn't it? like since Gregor Mendel accidentally discovered (or should I say he carefully observed and saw) and then mathmatically figured out how certain traits in peas are inherited and such.

I think this GM stuff is also part of our time. How far would it go? Well, that no one knows, but I don't think too far. Modern day science is great and it is getting better fast, but the gene stuff is so complicated and mixing them around is even worse.

We barely got human genome and genome of many other living things sequenced, but how to use them for whatever purpose some people have, we still have so many years before figuring out.

Like travelling through space to other galaxy, yeah, that would never happen even if we figure out a way to travel at the speed of light!!!

and I'm not a Christian. lol

[Aki_James]

Although I do agree with the fact that it is human nature to meddle as pointed out.

But there is a huge difference breeding something together that "IS" genetically compatible, and GM.
Both do have risks but the risks associated with selective breeding are a whole other story compared with what can happen by artificially modifying genes.

How long before a mistake and we create some kind of problematic genetic anomaly? Genes are not meant to be played with they are meant to choose their own path. Do you honestly think that no harm can come form forcing genes? Especially when we don't even fully understand how the sequence may work?

I am not as concerned with the fact that it was done with one orchid as I'm concerned that it is in the public's eye already. The problem is not that we want to understand and modify nature, its that it is based on money always. That orchid should have never been shown in public until it is fully tested for genetic anomalies. If It was breed into the hobbyist world it could possibly cause huge issues.

I still believe that we should never be crossing genes from unrelated things.....cows should be crossed with cows, dogs with dogs, and orchids with orchids....

I am half Anglo half Oriental my mother married a Japanese man because she loves the oriental genes..I have very little Oriental genes..perhaps her next child she will be able to chose which genes it may inherit. Or perhaps give it giraffe legs...who knows...lol

[dendro photo]

I don't grow any phals and very little in the onc group because of hybridizing. I do mini and pure plants no hybrids so a genetic thing will not be in my collection.

[Vanda lover]

That's a little extreme, but to each his own. I'm not fond of genetic manipulation either.

[Stray59]

I am just butting in with my opinion, but I think that this particular blue orchid pictured was created through manipulation alright, but I think it is computer- not DNA- generated - at least the coloring; sorry, but the photo does not look real to me. There is little to no other color showing in the pic except blue. With photoshop and such available at a very reasonable price, I look at most photos as most likely "touched up" to look however the marketer desires. The little amount of yellowish tone would be ease to 'paint' in as desired. If I were showing off a true blue phalae, the first of it's kind, I would provide a color scale (reds, yellows, greens) that would show that the hue was truly blue; even the background in the photo has a blue haze to it, so again, I am not convinced that this pic is representative of a new color palette in the phalae family.
Interesting to wait and see!
Steve