Question about naming paph primary hybrid

[Orchidreamer]

Ok I just got a paph sanderianium x philippinense . Does this primary hybrid have a name? I looked around and found Paph Michael Koopowitz, but I don't know if any sanderianium x philippinense cross is called Paph Michael Koopowitz, or if Paph Michael Koopowitz is reserved for some special division or a cross between two specific variants of the species.

[ronaldhanko]

Any cross of sanderianum x philippinense or philippinense x sanderianum is named Michael Koopowitz, so that is indeed what you have - the original cross was made and registered by Paphanatics.

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Originally Posted by ronaldhanko

Any cross of sanderianum x philippinense or philippinense x sanderianum is named Michael Koopowitz, so that is indeed what you have - the original cross was made and registered by Paphanatics.

That is actually incorrect. When you have a cross, in this instance Paph (philippinense x sanderianum), ONLY when a cross is made like that, with philippinense as the pod parent, and sanderianum as the pollen parent is it registered as Michael Koopowitz. It doesn't matter what variety or form is used of those two species, it MUST be in that order. If someone did a reverse cross, it could be registered as something else.

[ronaldhanko]

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

That is actually incorrect. When you have a cross, in this instance Paph (philippinense x sanderianum), ONLY when a cross is made like that, with philippinense as the pod parent, and sanderianum as the pollen parent is it registered as Michael Koopowitz. It doesn't matter what variety or form is used of those two species, it MUST be in that order. If someone did a reverse cross, it could be registered as something else.

Check the RHS website or Orchidwiz and you'll find it ain't so. Either way the cross is Michael Koopowitz.

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Originally Posted by ronaldhanko

Check the RHS website or Orchidwiz and you'll find it ain't so. Either way the cross is Michael Koopowitz.

I actually did to make sure, and what came up is that it is (philippinense x sanderianum), and I even reversed it in the parentage search, and nothing comes up. Another example, one of the top of my head is Phal. Penang Girl (violacea x venosa). When I entered it as (venosa x violacea), there was no result. I am not sure why it is, but a person could make a cross, register it with the RHS, and them make same thing just reversing the pod and polled parents, and you can register it as another grex. So I could make a cross as (venosa x violacea), and register it with the grex name of my choice!

[ronaldhanko]

Originally Posted by TheBlazingAugust

I actually did to make sure, and what came up is that it is (philippinense x sanderianum), and I even reversed it in the parentage search, and nothing comes up. Another example, one of the top of my head is Phal. Penang Girl (violacea x venosa). When I entered it as (venosa x violacea), there was no result. I am not sure why it is, but a person could make a cross, register it with the RHS, and them make same thing just reversing the pod and polled parents, and you can register it as another grex. So I could make a cross as (venosa x violacea), and register it with the grex name of my choice!

Ordinarily the cross is made once and registered that way, but the opposite is still the same cross according to the RHS. If you send them venosa x violacea as a new cross they'll return it to you with the information that the cross is already registered. Look up Paph. Femme Fatale for example on this vendor's web page: Seedling Listing, or Phrag. Wossen on this page: Seedling Listing. The flowers may even be different as a result of the reverse but it is still considered the same cross.

[silken]

Hey Cody,

I checked both the Phal and Paph examples mentioned above in OrchidWiz and they come up with the same name no matter which way they are entered. I expect RHS just has incomplete records and my thought is if you could have different names for the opposite crossing, the records would really get mixed up and confused.

[ronaldhanko]

Originally Posted by silken

Hey Cody,

I checked both the Phal and Paph examples mentioned above in OrchidWiz and they come up with the same name no matter which way they are entered. I expect RHS just has incomplete records and my thought is if you could have different names for the opposite crossing, the records would really get mixed up and confused.

The RHS only records the cross one way, the way it is originally submitted. Since they are the same cross, there is no need to register them both ways.

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Oh, wow, I guess I was wrong! Sorry about that! It's just that I thought that since the pod parent is usually more dominant in a specific cross, that there would be a big enough difference that it would be registered as two different grexes when you flipped the parents. I guess the fact that the RHS only shows one didn't help at all, but thanks for clearing this up for me! Well, at least I learned something today!

[silken]

A day is wasted if something new isn't learned