DNA Testing Question

[Lisa]

Hello All,

Is there anyone on the forum that knows where you send to get testing done on orchids? I know alot of us have a gorgeous orchid and no idea about it's blood lines. When I web search it brings up all kinds of info just not this, it seems. I don't have the foggest how much it would cost either but have a couple of orchids I would love to know about.

Thanks for your thoughts! Lisa

[kiki-do]

No idea, but don't want you to get lost so you to the top.

[Dorothy]

If you have an orchid that is tagged with a name,
the RHS registry site allows you to access
parentage search - Royal Horticultural Society - Plants: The International Orchid Register
and
Grex name search - Royal Horticultural Society - Plants: The International Orchid Register

[Greenorchid]

But if the plant has no name, or it's supposed it's mislabeled?
There's a way to know much more about this plant, through a dna testing? or it's too much expensive?

I'm also interested in this, a lot

[Ray]

Unfortunately, in order to do DNA testing as a way to ID a plant, there would need to be a database of the genetic makeup of all of them, and there simply isn't.

Secondly, even if you were to have a database of the species, there is no guarantee that their ID would tell you what your plant is. For example, if your results showed that there were genes from only three species in your plant's background - A, B, and C - there is no way to know if your plant is (A x B) x C, A x (B x C), or (A x C) x B, which are three different hybrids, or even a more complex hybrid combining them several times over.

[Greenorchid]

Thank you Ray!
But, anyway, does a laboratory specialized in orchid dna tests exist? Just curious

[cirillonb]

DNA testing for humans and animals is extremely expensive (in terms of thousands of dollars.) Remember just within the last 10 years has the human genome (a list of all the chromosome sites on the DNA strand) been defined at the cost of several Billion (that's with a B) dollars.
Furthermore, what Ray said is exactly true. Parentage is not easily determined this way.
Nick Cirillo

[Vulpes Velox]

Originally Posted by cirillonb

DNA testing for humans and animals is extremely expensive (in terms of thousands of dollars.) Remember just within the last 10 years has the human genome (a list of all the chromosome sites on the DNA strand) been defined at the cost of several Billion (that's with a B) dollars.
Furthermore, what Ray said is exactly true. Parentage is not easily determined this way.
Nick Cirillo

true, however.. this is because they are looking at the entire genome. that is not needed to just identify the species, you can just look at a specific sequence. it greatly reduces cost and can be done very fast. as people mention there is databases being build, but they are actually already very big, i wouldnt be suprised if they already contain loads of orchids.

(not saying everyone can just order something like that (labs that analyze these things normally work with big orders))

not sure if a hybrid might be difficult to identify, but if its in the database and you know what to look for i cant see why? (someone can probably correct me though ) but why would a hybrid be different to look at than an original species?

[Mahon]

Originally Posted by Vulpes Velox

true, however.. this is because they are looking at the entire genome. that is not needed to just identify the species, you can just look at a specific sequence. it greatly reduces cost and can be done very fast.

Vulpes,

I don't think that using specific sequences of an accession is accurate for identification purposes (please correct me if I'm wrong). However, identifying relationships between species (and even genera) has proven more accurate. This approach is being used to rid of Dracula xenos from the genus Dracula.

It should be remembered that we are looking at a small piece of something huge, and not to uphold it as a definite answer, but a 'tool'. Let the Prosthechea scheme be a better example of how definite molecular evidence really is. Still, nothing can override morphology; it can just make it more useful.

Lastly, assuming a person had a Brassalaeliocattleya hybrid that they wanted to know what species and hybrids it is comprised of, and if there were many Cattleya multigeneric hybrid accessions (and there were some HUGE steps made! lol), it would be the equivalent of finding the needle in the haystack, on fire, blindfolded, and hands tied.
Chances are, that person would be better off guessing not only the parentage in their hybrid, but the exact date, time, and location Jim Carey will say something funny... there wouldn't be a person out there willing to waste valuable time and money in entering in random hybrids to be accessed later. That time and money can be put in 'checking' intergeneric and intrageneric relationships, which is the sole use of 'DNA testing' concerning orchids.

Lisa,
Do you have a pic of the plant you are curious about its parentage? Sometimes, primary and natural hybrids are more apparent in what their parentage can be...

-Pat

[wetfeet101b]

Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, is undertaking a project that catalogs plant DNA samples.

But it is currently for purposes other than orchid hybrid identification.

Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew: Plant DNA Bank database

It may be a long way to go before it can reach a state where a hobbyist can mail in a plant sample and they send you a packet containing the heritage of the plant.
But the process of building the database is already there and it is already opening doors for other botanical and scientific endeavors.