Physan-20 Kill Coronavirus?

[Clawhammer]

Originally Posted by Ray

I would guess the answer is “yes”.

Physan 20 is of the same class of quaternary ammonium compounds as hospital disinfectants. It consists of alkyl dimethyl benzyl chlorides and alkyl dimethyl ethyl benzyl chlorides.

Some disinfecting wipes we picked up at the grocery store contain those and octyl- versions, but totaling only 0.31%. A tablespoon-per-gallon is 0.39%.

I use a single liquid product for shampoo, body wash and shaving lubricant in the shower. Back when I was on the road 5-6 days a week and spent a lot of time in the hot end of glass plants (ambient temperature about 115-120F), I would “spike” the soap product with a half teaspoon Physan per bottle to make it more strongly antibacterial. Did that for several years and never had a problem.

Thanks Ray, I found several other quaternary cleaners on the official list from the CDC. I like the clean smell of physan-20 over lysol. All my hand sanitizer and idinfectant wipes are like 5 years old so not sure how effective they are. Going to make up a spray bottle of physan.

1tbsp a gallon still recommended?

---------- Post added at 06:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:08 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Subrosa

I'm certainly not suggesting you simply run out, buy and use it, but a 1.5% solution of glutaraldehyde is available at most pet stores labeled "Flourish Excel". Glutaraldehyde is used for cold sterilization of surgical instruments, and surfaces in laboratory environments. I would strongly suggest you look into the compound yourself before using it, and of course it's suitable for external use only!

Coincidentally I have two bottles of this from my planted fish tank days!

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Clawhammer

1tbsp a gallon still recommended?

That’s what I would do.

[hypostatic]

Alright, so there is a BIG "danger" warning on the Physan bottle. On the back, it says to not get it on your skin:

Corrosive. Causes irreversible eye damage and skin burns. Do not get in eyes, on skin, or on clothing. Wear goggles or face shield and rubber gloves when handling. May be harmful il swallowed or absorbed through the skin. Wash thoroughly with soap and water after handling and before eating, drinking or using tobacco. Remove contaminated clothing and wash before reuse

Please do not use this to decontaminate surfaces that you plan on touching soon after

[Ray]

Originally Posted by hypostatic

Alright, so there is a BIG "danger" warning on the Physan bottle. On the back, it says to not get it on your skin:

Please do not use this to decontaminate surfaces that you plan on touching soon after

That primarily applies to the concentrate. A 1 teaspoon-per-gallon dilution isn’t an issue. Certainly, I’d avoid eye contact in any case.

I read a recent article that talked about the use of NIH approved greenhouse disinfectants to avoid shipping contaminated plants if a nursery worker has COVID-19, and Physan was not on the list.

Sorry, I no longer have the article or reference.

[kvet]

Originally Posted by Ray

That primarily applies to the concentrate. A 1 teaspoon-per-gallon dilution isn’t an issue. Certainly, I’d avoid eye contact in any case.

Diluted p-20 effluent got all over my hands a couple weeks ago when I was spraying outdoor non-orchid plants to see if it would work against powdery mildew. I'm hoping for a sixth finger.

Is it the new windex?

Originally Posted by Ray

I read a recent article that talked about the use of NIH approved greenhouse disinfectants to avoid shipping contaminated plants if a nursery worker has COVID-19, and Physan was not on the list.

Sorry, I no longer have the article or reference.

Here is one: Approved disinfectants for COVID-19 - Nursery Management

Which links here: List N: Disinfectants for Use Against SARS-CoV-2 | Pesticide Registration | US EPA

[Clawhammer]

I worked in restaurants all through high school and college and "quat" sanitizer was ever present in all those establishments. It smelled exactly like Physan-20

In the meantime since I posted this I was able to acquire some bleach and I am using that as my disinfectant now (diluted).

For corrosives it really is all about concentration. It is not a poison or a carcinogen. If it is not burning it is not harming. I agree putting it in my eye or eating it is not a good idea.

[thefish1337]

Originally Posted by Clawhammer

I worked in restaurants all through high school and college and "quat" sanitizer was ever present in all those establishments. It smelled exactly like Physan-20

In the meantime since I posted this I was able to acquire some bleach and I am using that as my disinfectant now (diluted).

For corrosives it really is all about concentration. It is not a poison or a carcinogen. If it is not burning it is not harming. I agree putting it in my eye or eating it is not a good idea.

yes it does smell similar to the quat salt preparations they use to clean down grocery store meat departments. These chemicals have regulated usage and concentrations for these purposes. Physan20 does not. I just think its bad advice to advocate its use as a household cleaner/disinfectant because it's not intended for that. Regular dish soap rapidly inactivates coronavirus...

Taken from Wikipedia:

Health effects
Quaternary ammonium compounds can display a range of health effects, amongst which are mild skin and respiratory irritation [24] up to severe caustic burns on skin and the gastrointestinal wall (depending on concentration), gastrointestinal symptoms (e.g., nausea and vomiting), coma, convulsions, hypotension and death.[25]

They are thought to be the chemical group responsible for anaphylactic reactions that occur with use of neuromuscular blocking drugs during general anaesthesia in surgery.[26] Quaternium-15 is the single most often found cause of allergic contact dermatitis of the hands (16.5% in 959 cases)[27]

Possible reproductive effects in laboratory animals
Quaternary ammonium-based disinfectants (Virex and Quatricide) were tentatively identified as the most probable cause of jumps in birth defects and fertility problems in caged lab mice. The quat ingredients in the disinfectants include alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride (ADBAC) and didecyl dimethyl ammonium chloride (DDAC).[28][29] A similar link was tentatively identified in nurses.[30] The studies contradict earlier toxicology data reviewed by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (U.S. EPA) and the EU Commission.[31]

Over-usage of quat salts in the home allows these chemicals to build up in the dusts of your home. I personally would avoid that, especially if you have autoimmune issues, skin sensitivities, asthma or anything that makes you susceptible to irritants. The avg age is pretty high on this forum so I imagine most don't care about the potential reproductive harm... but some of us do. Especially for corona virus why not wipe down surfaces with detergent and 10% bleach? its much less persistent and poses less threat to the quality of a home environment.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by kvet

I'm hoping for a sixth finger.

As they say ------ why stop at 6, when you could go for 7? hehehehe