Is Epidendrum Ballerina a hybrid or a variation

[stefandeak]

I cannot seem to find its parents mentioned anywhere even though it says everywhere that is it a hybrid. Being such a popular orchid I'd have thought this information would be more readily available. So know I'm starting to think that it might be just a variation of epi. radicans. I don't know...
Does anyone have any idea about this matter?

Also I had no idea where to post this , here seemed like the best place to do so. So Moderators, please feel free to move this thread to where you think it might be best.

Edit: by popular I meant pretty common and easy to find

[Subrosa]

OrchidRoots
I'm curious as to how the plant was registered. If there's no provenance from the RHS, only a genetic analysis could possibly tell.

[stefandeak]

I saw that already, but I don't know what to make of it.

[Ray]

It was registered in 1900. The RHS just generally accepted old records like that, which can lead to some confusion.

[stefandeak]

Oh! sorry about my previous answer - for some reason I could only see the link in the first reply, without the text that follows.

I see... Still curious how it hasn't been updated or filled out in the meantime. I'm thinking that maybe someone who has more experience with them might have a more educated guess about their provenance, based on observation and so on. Although, seeing how reed stem epidendrums are so similar in some aspects maybe genetic analysis IS the only way.

[MrHappyRotter]

Why not contact the RHS and ask? They list their email address on the hybrid detail page. Let us know what you find out.

It's certainly quite anomalous to have almost no information regarding a valid registration. The registration date looks suspiciously like a made-up placeholder value similar to most of the other information for this hybrid, so I wouldn't even trust that the hybrid was registered in 1900.

If the original record is lost or damaged, I'm unsure how anyone could go about accurately and precisely updating the record.

If we accept that it's an approximately 100+ year old hybrid, the originator has almost certainly passed away. It's also possible that any personal records he/she kept are gone, and everyone with first hand knowledge may no longer be around.

As for genetic testing, that's another can of worms. There are technological limitations to consider which might make it difficult or impossible to suss out the actual parentage. Setting that aside, people would have to figure out which plants to test, with a reliable means to rule out the possibility of mistaken ID / mislabeled plants having been passed off as E. Ballerina. Can we actually be sure that the plants available today are actually the same hybrid that was registered all those years ago? In addition, someone would need to pay for the testing, and that's not something the RHS generally does. Even so, I wonder whether the RHS would actually accept the results and whether there's a procedure in place for the registration to be updated.

[stefandeak]

@MrHappyRotter:
Thank you for your message and sorry for my late reply.. 2 months later lol. ( pro procrastinator here heh )

I see what you mean. Well, I did message them and here's the short exchange

ME
To Whom It May Concern,

I'm contacting you in regards to the parents of this specific orchid hybrid, Epidendrum Ballerina ( The International Orchid Register / RHS Gardening ).

I cannot find anything on its origins/parents. And I think it is very peculiar how the date is 01/01/1900 - it seems like it is more like a placeholder date rather than the actual date. Do you have any more information about this orchid? I'm especially interested to know its parents if nothing else.

Looking forward to hearing from you,
Stefan Deak.

REPLY
Hello Stefan,

Thank you for your email.

There is no available data on Epidendrum Ballerina. It is not a registered name.

The entry in the register is to prevent registration of a different orchid under the same name, which would cause confusion.

Best Wishes,

Mirabelle

Now, English is not my native language, but it seems that I`m missing something here. Like: if it`s not registered then why is it there. To prevent someone else registering another hybrid under the same name to prevent confusion with... an unregistered hybrid?

[Fairorchids]

While we can't be 100% certain, the fact that it is sold under a hybrid name, makes it 99.9% likely to be a hybrid.

In the early days, the RHS did accept some registrations where 1 or both parents were unknown.

Prior to better record keeping (about 1930?), the registration date is always shown as January 1st.

Species identification in the reedstem Epi group is notoriously 'vague', as there is interbreeding in nature, so even a DNA analysis might not provide a clear answer.

The fact that it is still around attests to how vigorous these plants are. Then again, it is possible that there has been a remake (something x something else), or more likely a selfing, and the offspring was given the recognized commercial name of 'Ballerina'.