spathglottis plicata seeds (i think the stage they're in is called protocorm?)

[neophyte]

I really didn't expect that the seeds would germinate, but they did! How long should I keep them in there (like until they're how big?) Also, when should I start choosing which ones to keep? There are much too many.

sorry about the photo quality; I did this really quickly.


PS: how do you edit the tags on the post?

[WhiteRabbit]

[camille1585]

I can't help you with the orchid related questions, but for the tags, they are auto generated, and alternatively there is a box to add your own when creating a thread. It doesn't seem possible to edit them afterwards though.

[PaphMadMan]

Since they seem to be showing the start of a leaf-like extension they are just stating to come out of protocorm stage.

This appears not to be a sterile environment - natural germination. Correct? Some terrestrial orchids like Spathoglottis will do that much more easily than tropical epiphyte types.

Even if it isn't a sterile container they would still be susceptible to different bacterial and fungal pathogens if moved out of there at this stage, so I wouldn't move them at this point or open the container unnecessarily. They can stay together in that container as long as they have room to grow upward. You may find they grow quite unevenly. When some are a couple inches tall you could start removing the largest ones and leave others to continue developing in case the first one's out have problems. With luck you will end up with a lot more seedlings than you need, but the ones that grow fastest to start will probably always be the most vigorous and easiest to grow.

With Spathoglottis we'll be expecting to see the first flower pictures in 3-5 years.

[epiphyte78]

Very cool! What's the medium? It looks like bark. You should try the same technique with reed-stem Epidendrum seeds.

[neophyte]

thanks camille1585 and PaphMadMan and epiphyte78!

The medium is just bark, with some mud. Seriously. I read somewhere that the seeds need fungi to germinate if you don't grow them in vitro, so I put a bit of mud just to make sure there was fungi. Also, on the top of the container, I made a hole and covered it in cotton. The idea was to keep the water from evaporating too quickly but allow air flow. Not sure if that actually works, but the seeds are doing fine, so it's okay.

[epiphyte78]

Neophyte, mud??? I'm sure that it had some fungi, but what are the chances that it had the right fungi? Where do you live?

[PaphMadMan]

Spathoglottis is a naturalized weed in many areas of the tropics and subtropics outside its large native range. It must find a compatible symbiote in many places.

[neophyte]

northern california. It had just rained, so I figured it couldn't hurt . I also added some mycorrhizae fungus (although it was supposed to be used for regular gardening ...)

[epiphyte78]

The seeds of some naturalized orchids might germinate with a widespread fungus. They might also germinate with a wide variety of fungus. But a third possibility is that some might germinate without fungus...

"That some Bletilla seed will develop aseptically without added sugar (Withner, 1959, p. 237) does not indicate that this genus has lost its mycorrhizal habit. Rather, it merely indicates that some of these quick-developing seeds have enough stored carbohydrate to bridge the gap from water imbibition to protocorm development and greening, with consequent photosynthesis. Normally, Bletilla are invaded by mycorrhiza, fed with sugars digested by the fungi, and develop more vigorously than do aseptically cultured seeds. It is true that the fully differentiated seedling of all green-leaved orchids can photosynthesize enough carbohydrate so that the plants could be independent of mycorrhiza. Nevertheless, the fungi that invaded the embryonic tissue often remain associated with the orchid throughout its life." - William Sanford, The Ecology of Orchids

More recently...

"There are several reports of orchid seeds being able to germinate on water agar without carbohydrates or compatible fungi. Of these reports of orchid seed germination in the absence of carbohydrates or fungi (Downie 1941; Smith 1973; Stoutamire 1964, 1974; Vermeulen 1947) it is not always clear if seeds were cultured in light or dark conditions or the criteria used for scoring germination. As previously stated, a small fraction of B. purpurea seeds were able to germinate in darkness without a carbohydrate present, though more were able to germinate under light". - Timothy R. Johnson, Michael E. Kane, Hector E. Perez, Examining the interaction of light, nutrients and carbohydrates on seed germination and early seedling development of Bletia purpurea (Orchidaceae)

It would certainly be useful to have a list of all the orchids that can germinate without fungus/flasking.