Phal keiki in full water culture? - Orchid Board

Mama.K · #1 03-23-2017, 02:21 AM

Hi all!

Full disclosure, I am still new to orchid keeping. It has only been about 4 months since I got my first phal and it met an untimely demise... however, about 2.5 months ago I got another phal and a mini phal from Lowe's. They were HORRIBLY over-watered and I almost lost them to root rot! I'll get into more of those details in another post, but they have both been converted to full water culture and are bouncing back beautifully ❤.

Now to the point of this post... tonight I came into possession of two keikis. Another phal and mini phal. The mini phal keiki has 2 healthy looking leaves about 1.5in long and a single root about 1.25in long. The other is not looking so good. It has 2 roots, both VERY short (like one is barely there and the other is no longer than .75in) and the leaves are about 2-3in long and very soft/wilted and very sad looking. I have them each in the same water culture set up as my other two - 1/4 to 1/3 of the root length submerged in filtered water in a glass jar sitting in an East window.

Is there anything else I can do to keep them alive? I plan on misting them every 1-2 days to make sure they're getting enough moisture but I'm new to orchid care let alone keikis...

Mama.K · #2 03-23-2017, 02:25 AM

In the photo it looks like the mini phal root is much more than 1/3 of the way submerged but it was just the angle... and I forgot to mention the phal keiki was attached to a dying mother plant who had suffered from a bad case of root rot from old mushy bark media

Orchid Whisperer · #3 03-23-2017, 07:02 AM

i sometimes do vase culture with Phals but not full water culture. With the roots only partially submerged, what you do sounds similar to semi-hydroponic, which some people do quite successfully.

Since this method works for you, why not try it? Personally, when I have keikis, i just pot them with bark in small terracotta pots.

jcec1 · #4 03-23-2017, 07:27 AM

I've never tried water culture, but I think that there will be enough humidity around the plant to forego misting.

estación seca · #5 03-23-2017, 02:51 PM

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

There are members of our orchid society who have great results with full water culture, so it should work for you, too.

You already live in a high-humidity state. Misting of leaves is a bad idea for most orchids. It keeps the leaves wet longer, so fungus can enter. A humidifier is a better way to raise the ambient humidity, but I'm pretty sure you don't need one. Phals do fine indoors in much lower-humidity areas than you. "Humidity trays" are not effective in raising humidity, but they are good for keeping water off furniture.

It would also be funny to watch you go into a Florida hardware store and ask to buy a humidifier.

jkofferdahl · #6 03-23-2017, 03:31 PM

I've not tried water culture, and, frankly, think that it's about as far from how an orchid lives in the natural world as you can get. Which doesn't mean it doesn't work, just that it doesn't work for my brain. With a little keiki like that, my approach would be to pot in up in a small pot and using small-chunk bark, treating it like a seedling.

For humidity I use humidifiers. However, I use them only in cold weather when the furnace is running; during the rest of the year the natural humidity where I live is sufficient. And, since you live in Florida, you can buy humidifiers on Amazon.

Mama.K · #7 03-24-2017, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

I've not tried water culture, and, frankly, think that it's about as far from how an orchid lives in the natural world as you can get. Which doesn't mean it doesn't work, just that it doesn't work for my brain. With a little keiki like that, my approach would be to pot in up in a small pot and using small-chunk bark, treating it like a seedling.

For humidity I use humidifiers. However, I use them only in cold weather when the furnace is running; during the rest of the year the natural humidity where I live is sufficient. And, since you live in Florida, you can buy humidifiers on Amazon.

I have had zero luck with anything other than water culture

I don't know why but I lost my first phal in bark media and tried to save my current phal and mini (not the keikis) with moss but the damage from Lowes on top of me somehow still over watering almost did them in... any tips?

---------- Post added at 10:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by estación seca

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

There are members of our orchid society who have great results with full water culture, so it should work for you, too.

You already live in a high-humidity state. Misting of leaves is a bad idea for most orchids. It keeps the leaves wet longer, so fungus can enter. A humidifier is a better way to raise the ambient humidity, but I'm pretty sure you don't need one. Phals do fine indoors in much lower-humidity areas than you. "Humidity trays" are not effective in raising humidity, but they are good for keeping water off furniture.

It would also be funny to watch you go into a Florida hardware store and ask to buy a humidifier.

I will put a hold on misting and see how they do

I use the Miracle Gro orchid mist fertilizer, should I use it on the keikis as well? If so, how often? I usually use it on my other two once every 1-2 weeks...

jkofferdahl · #8 03-24-2017, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mama.K

I have had zero luck with anything other than water culture

I don't know why but I lost my first phal in bark media and tried to save my current phal and mini (not the keikis) with moss but the damage from Lowes on top of me somehow still over watering almost did them in... any tips?

Yes indeed. If you're losing your orchids to over-watering, water less often.

When determining whether or not the plant is ready to be watered, use a wooden skewer inserted in the pot like a dipstick. Leave in in for about 10 minutes, then remove it. If you detect any moisture on it then you don't want to water the plant.

The use of sphagnum moss as a growing medium is quite problematic. First, it holds water like nothing else. Second, Phal roots need both dryness and air movement, both of which are tough with mess, and especially if it becomes at all compacted. That it's usually put into plastic pots without enough drainage or air holes makes moss even more difficult to grow with. I'm not saying it can't be used, because I've had excellent growth using it under the right circumstances, but it needs caution and care.

The other alternative to over-watering is to mount your orchids, something I am strongly in favor of anyway. It's virtually impossible to over-water a mounted orchid.

Orchid Whisperer · #9 03-24-2017, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mama.K

I have had zero luck with anything other than water culture

I don't know why but I lost my first phal in bark media and tried to save my current phal and mini (not the keikis) with moss but the damage from Lowes on top of me somehow still over watering almost did them in... any tips?

I started to write a different kind of reply, but realized I didn't know anything (yet) about the plants you purchase, and how you care for them when you get them home. Kind of dumb of me to offer advice before I know all of that stuff!

So, here are some basic questions.

1. Assuming you get most of your Phal orchids at local stores:

Are they in one pot only, or a plastic pot inside a decorative pot that does not have a drainage hole?

What material is around the roots (sphagnum moss? Bark? Some kind of orchid growing mix? Something else (please describe)?

Are they in flower (healthy roots, leaves) when you buy, or do you mostly buy clearance sale plants that are out of flower (sometimes with roots or leaves that are already a little sad)?

2. When you get them home, do you:

Repot right away, into (bark, sphagnum moss, or something else)

Wait until the flowers are finished to repot

Wait until I get around to it to repot, usually _____ weeks

Wait until the plant shows signs of distress before I repot (poor roots, limp leaves, etc.)

3. For plants that are not in full water culture, what type(s) of medium have you used (bark, sphagnum, etc.) and what types of pots do you use (plastic, glazed ceramic, unglazed terracotta, something else)? Do you continue to use the decorative pot, if one came with the plant?

4. When you water, HOW do you water, HOW OFTEN do you water, HOW DO YOU JUDGE when to water the next time? For example, I water at the kitchen sink, water flowing freely through the bark ad over roots only, no water getting on the leaves. I water about twice a week, but I judge when to water by waiting until the bark is nearly dry before watering again.

5. Do you know anything about the quality of your water (if you are on city water, a visit to the city utility website, or a call to your utility department, should get you basic water quality information). One of the following should be asked (a) what is the total dissolved solids content (TDS; parts per million, should be under 200 ppm, lower is better) or (b) what is the electrical conductivity (EC, sometimes called specific conductance, units are often micro Siemens per centimeter (uS/cm) but sometimes expressed in different units) I can estimate TDS if I know what EC is. Water quality is important, but probably the least important of the 5 questions for most people.

A lot of questions, but it will help answer the basics about how you care for plants, and what could be going wrong.

Mocres · #10 03-31-2017, 01:01 PM

I have all my phals in water culture, and they are happy - they all have spikes right now. I think your little keiki will be ok there.