Selfing

[calvin_orchidL]

Hey everyone! haven't been around for a while! I'm thinking about trying my hand at some tissue culture/seed germination. I work in a medical research lab so I have access to flasks, autoclaves, laminar flow hoods, disinfectants etc...I'm going to order some media from the orchid seedbank project/may make my own to see how that works out. So the only thing I'm missing is seed!

My question is, how viable is self-pollinated seed? I don't know the ploidy of my orchids, but I'm assuming it won't matter since if I self it, the seed should have an okay chromosome count. Any ideas? I have some phals in flower, as well as a sedirea japonica, and I'd love to have more of *that* one, so I'm considering self-pollination.

Also, if anyone has any seed (sterile/nonsterile) or pods that they have lying around and are willing to donate them to experimentation, give me a shout and I can do SASE or something. Alas, I'm in Canada, but I can try my best to send back the progeny if I succeed.

Thanks!

[charmbutterfly]

:

Hey there Calvin

I have been going around pollinating anything that i have in flower!! I have 2 dendrobiums, 2 cyms and a big phal in bloom. If i can get seed pods maybe we can work something out

[Andrew]

I self a number of my uncommon orchid species regularly, especially those that can't be vegetatively reproduced quickly. Self pollinated flowers usually don't set seed as well as cross pollinated flowers but as orchids produce a ton of seed it isn't much of an issue especially for non-commercial propagation. If you have the option, pollinate one flower with the pollinia of another rather than selfing the same flower. I have no experience with Sedirea or Phals but while selfing the same flower often has no deleterious effects, many orchid flowers will senesce after the pollen cap is removed resulting in lower or no seed set. Ploidy should only be an issue for triploid (3N) plants.

Selfing is useful where the species in question is either rare, you want to maintain lines (eg if you want to keep an orchid of known provenance genetically pure, etc) or you want to concentrate some desirable traits of the parent. However, selfing concentrates bad traits just as well as it concentrates good ones so you may find yourself growing out a lot of dogs to find something worthwhile, especially if the parents aren't of breeding quality to start with.

[calvin_orchidL]

Great thanks for the reply! It's a pity because I have 2 sedirea and they usually bloom at the same time, but this year one of them is late! Otherwise, it would have been perfect.

This is great to know - thanks again!

[Gin]

Save the pollen, there is an article on how to do it on the site a search might kick it up . Really good info. from Andrew , most species are 2 N you should not have a problem. Gin

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Andrew

while selfing the same flower often has no deleterious effects, many orchid flowers will senesce after the pollen cap is removed resulting in lower or no seed set.

I should clarify that this is species/genus dependant. For a lot of the species I self pollinate, I don't have a problem. For others, I've noticed that removing the cap causes the flowers to collapse within a few days whether selfed, crossed or not pollinated.

[calvin_orchidL]

Thanks for the responses! I didn't read the thread in time and ended up selfing but I still have some flowers left to store pollen from. Unlike the phals which I previously pollinated, the sedirea blossoms seem to remain open at least for 2 days (we'll see what happens later this week) but the opening to the stigma closed off, which I hope is a signal that the pollen was in the right place at least. Will post updates on what happens!

[maitaman]

I agree that selfing some species is a good way to increase distribution of them and to ensure their continuation. I don't recommend selfing most hybrids.
To store pollen, take it after the flower on longer-lasting types is ripe (three days is usually good) and let it dry, then dessicate it and store it in the refrigerator.
A good dessicator for orchid seed and pollen is simply a wide-mouthed sealable jar, a little tray that sits on something to hold it above the liquid, some water, and some Damp-Rid (calcium chloride). Add the CaCl until it will no longer dissolve and place the jar in a cool dark place overnight, put the pollen/seed in a sealable vial and store in the refrigerator for as much as 2 years.
Don't make crosses just to make crosses. It takes the same time and effort to produce something good as to produce junk.
Good luck!

[Craig]

im new to pollination,,, i was wondering if you take polina from say an Epinendrum and put the pollina in the stigma of a oncidium on one flower, and then self another flower on the onsidium, or in other words, put the same plants pollina in its stigma, the pods that were selfed will produce seed pods that will produce exact plants as the host oncidium, but the flowers that were polinated on that same oncidium from the epinidrum will produce seed pods that will produce a cross between the epi x oncid or am i totaly confused here?

[calvin_orchidL]

Originally Posted by Craig

im new to pollination,,, i was wondering if you take polina from say an Epinendrum and put the pollina in the stigma of a oncidium on one flower, and then self another flower on the onsidium, or in other words, put the same plants pollina in its stigma, the pods that were selfed will produce seed pods that will produce exact plants as the host oncidium, but the flowers that were polinated on that same oncidium from the epinidrum will produce seed pods that will produce a cross between the epi x oncid or am i totaly confused here?

I don't think epidendrum can be crossed with oncidiums - the two genera are too far apart. Oncidiums and odontoglossums, yeah probably. Selfing a hybrid will produce really variable results whereas selfing a species will more or less produce progeny that are like the original, although they won't be identical since there is still some gene recombination that occurs during pollination (I know I know it's weird that I asked the question originally and now here I am answering questions...I came to realize recently that I have, in fact, actually taken botany before a mere 2 years ago and I knew the answer to the question....stupid forgetful me )