Pollination failed...

[lotis146]

I tried to pollinate some of my Phals, minis and full-size, four (2 of each) to be exact. Within 24 I could see the flowers begin to wilt and close up over the pollinia. However after 4 days I noticed that only one of them looks to have a more swollen petiole/ovary. The other three look very much like a dying flower. Then today (5 days after pollination) I discovered one of the full-size flowers actually fell off!

For a little more info I'll share that I pollinated two minis with one pollen each from a full-size. The full size orchids received 2 pollen (both that came from one flower) from miniatures. The two minis look as though their flowers will ultimately just fall off as well, but one of the full-size is more swollen.

Is anyone familiar with this? Could it be something I did wrong? Natural process & I should try again or perhaps they just aren't compatible? When pollinating do you use both "packets" from one flower to fertilize another or can you divide the two up to different flowers like I did? The flower that does appear to have been successfully pollinated btw is an older flower just like the other full-sized and one of the minis. However it was pollinated by "younger" pollen (pollinia?).

Thank you for your help.

[Fairorchids]

Not every pollination works. After promising start, the prospective pod can abort at almost any time. There can be any number of reasons, incl.:

Genetic incompatibility
Plant too weak to carry a pod
Dry spell

I have never tried pollinating Phals, but I do work with both Paphs & mini Vandaceous group. On Paphs, if pod holds past flower fading (pollination does not shorten flower life) = 90-95% chance that pod will develop.

In Vandaceous group (closely related to Phals), I have seen more random pod failures. I have also seen pods carried to maturity, but containing no live seed.

One issue that comes into play concerns flower size.
A: Pollen from small flowers might not be able to grow tubes long enough to complete the pollination of large flowers.
B: Pollen from large flowers might not fit into smaller flowers. When this is the case, the flower should not show signs of wilting though - unless you severely manhandled it during pollination process.

[lotis146]

Thank you for this information. Pollination definitely shortened the life of these flowers - all of them - immediately. Only one has fallen off thus far. It makes sense that sometimes pollination isn't successful I just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything more obvious and predictable that I was perhaps missing.

[Fairorchids]

I just happened to have pollinated a Neofinetia falcata last Saturday (with a Rhy retusa to improve on the flower count), so I took a photo of that plant today. There were only two flowers on the spike that I pollinated, so it is easy to compare the non-pollinated with the pollinated.

After 4 days they look like this:

[lotis146]

Here's the one Phal that did succeed in being pollinated. It's been 11 days since I did so. This is a full size pollinated by a mini.

[lotis146]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

I just happened to have pollinated a Neofinetia falcata last Saturday (with a Rhy retusa to improve on the flower count), so I took a photo of that plant today. There were only two flowers on the spike that I pollinated, so it is easy to compare the non-pollinated with the pollinated.

After 4 days they look like this:

Interesting, thank you for sharing that. It seems your flowers don't suffer as much. I went ahead, as you see, and shared my "pod progression" so far, that is, after 11 days. How do yours look?

[Fairorchids]

I go to greenhouse twice a week. On last Sat the pod had clearly swollen further, so it appears to be successfull for now.

With Neofinetia falcata as pod parent, this is a relatively short wait now (abt 5 months).

[Orchid Whisperer]

lotis146: In post #5, that certainly looks like the pollination worked!

It can take months for the seeds and pod to be ready. I am not sure how long it will take for a hybrid Phal, but my Cattlianthe took 8 months to fully ripen. I have a Cattleya pod growing now that I expect will be ready around Christmas to New Years.

[lotis146]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

I go to greenhouse twice a week. On last Sat the pod had clearly swollen further, so it appears to be successfull for now.

With Neofinetia falcata as pod parent, this is a relatively short wait now (abt 5 months).

That's great! Wow, only 5 months about huh? I learned a while back that pod/seed development takes quite a bit of time, sometimes maybe up to a year! If mine makes it to the 6 week - 3 month mark(s) I'll then start getting more nervous about when to do the pod is ready to be sown. I'm planning to go with a commercial flasker. Only reason I'm glad it takes this long, I've got more time to learn and prepare!!

Originally Posted by Orchid Whisperer

lotis146: In post #5, that certainly looks like the pollination worked!

It can take months for the seeds and pod to be ready. I am not sure how long it will take for a hybrid Phal, but my Cattlianthe took 8 months to fully ripen. I have a Cattleya pod growing now that I expect will be ready around Christmas to New Years.

Yes I know, I'm very happy it's made it this far!!

I've got to do my homework on Phal pod development. When did you pollinate your Catt? Would you mind sharing some pics? I've got some Catts I want to breed when the opportunity arises but I'm still so new to them that I'm trying to get a better understanding of their overall anatomy and growth, very different from Phals who I'm most comfortable with (though I have more Catts now...sheesh...)

[Fairorchids]

Pod maturing time varies greatly by genus. In Paphs it is often 10-15 months. Neofinetia falcata is short at 165 days mean time, so I plan to harvest around 140-145 days for green pod.

First photo showed pod at 4 days, photo shown here is at 11 days.