Hybridising - Courtesy of Lenette Orchids

[zxyqu]

Cheers to that.

[orchidsarefun]

Originally Posted by isurus79

This would actually be a very simple experiment where a large number of orchids (same species, same age, same growth conditions, etc.) were pollinated on several different moon phases. Then you would weigh and/or count the number of seeds set. I don't really know how it could get any more straight forward.

you forgot - EXACTLY the
same plant size
same number of blooms
same ploidy
same parentage
same cultural conditions from seed to blooming...
.....and probably a lot more.

if it was straightforward then where is the evidence ?

Just my own pollination experience above provides general evidence that there may be something to it. I don't need to carry out arduous, time-consuming scientific experiments to see that.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

Originally Posted by zxyqu

Also, this comment does not belong anywhere, and I'm surprised a redaction or apology hasn't been issued.

???? its easy to make equally as outrageous comments that don't advance the discussion. I thought people would see that......but maybe not the "scientists"

[zxyqu]

I actually think I specified a lot of the details you indicated. I said "a bunch of the same cross." I left out details about trying to normalize as best as possible. You can't get everything perfect, so you do a lot of the same, a lot of times. This should normalize plant size. Ploidy isn't an issue as I'd obviously be intelligent in picking an even ploidy cross, and doing ONLY that cross multiple times (hence the same bunch of plants). Selfing clones would be even better. I also believe I mentioned something about it being valid only in my conditions.

And yet, with all that specified, you feel that your minimal, non controlled example of germination (and therefore not seed) of a few crosses is sufficient to provide credible evidence to this hypothesis? If that's the case how is my experiment not better?

It's a free country, and you can say what you said. But it is of my opinion that such a comment is not worthy of an intelligent discussion. Your other comments dont fit with that one, that's all.

---------- Post added at 06:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 PM ----------

Also it's not straightforward, as why in god's name would a grower want to make the same cross at least 8 times, and then need to repeat it at least once to provide a larger "n". Honestly, you'd probably need 10 plants for each groups. A separate group for all 8 phases (at least), and then a likely repeat. That's 160 seedpods, each counted for total viable seed. That's why it hasn't been done. It's easy, but pointless for anyone who doesn't want to answer this EXACT question. You'd also then need confirmation in a different environment.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

you forgot - EXACTLY the
same plant size
same number of blooms
same ploidy
same parentage
same cultural conditions from seed to blooming...
.....and probably a lot more.

if it was straightforward then where is the evidence ?

I said "etc." Everything that you and I mentioned as variables that need to be controlled are very easy to replicate in a controlled environment, especially with the availability of clones that are of the same age. I'm not going to give you a play by play on how to conduct an experiment. All I said is that it would be a very straight forward experiment, though as zxyqu just mentioned, a very large one and therefore time consuming and costly. However, in an earlier post Ryan Walsh said that these experiments have already been done and those with sufficient controls showed that the moon phase has been inconclusive in increasing seed yield. So don't go looking at your lunar calendar when pollinating orchids because it doesn't matter!

[orchidsarefun]

I wasn't the one who called some of the tips unscientific and basically as a result, hogwash. As I keep saying - the tips are take it or leave it. Why is that so hard to grasp ?

Out of 35 pollination attempts, I summarised the successful ones. Believe me I didn't consciously select any of the moon phases when doing so. Strangely or coincidentally, only 2 others that weren't successful were pollinated in one of the moon phases that I listed.
Is this proof that the tip is 100% accurate ? No. Did I say so ? No. If science can't prove or disprove it, I have the intelligence to know I can't either ! I actually couldn't care less, in the scheme of things.
But as I say - I am going to bear this in mind when pollinating. Its no harm to anyone else, is it ? Maybe for SOME seed as opposed to NO seed.

---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

Originally Posted by isurus79

However, in an earlier post Ryan Walsh said that these experiments have already been done and those with sufficient controls showed that the moon phase has been inconclusive in increasing seed yield. So don't go looking at your lunar calendar when pollinating orchids because it doesn't matter!

I think its strange that because Ryan says so, it makes it fact. Without supplying any proof. If you want people to see things as hogwash ( I have an open mind ), then you should have the facts to back up what is stated as fact.........and not attack people as being anti-science because they don't glibly accept it. A tip sheet is not as list of "facts" but a list to help people.
Overkill much ?

[zxyqu]

My comments were only in response to the commentary provided. I'm just saying your brief experience is no more factual than Ryan's hogwash comment. I dont know what science Ryan's commenting on, so I can't comment there, but your minimal germination events aren't controlled to any degree, and are as much hyperbole as the non-listed scientific evidence provided by Ryan. If you believe this, fine. If you dont, fine. If you're on the fence, fine. I'm just saying it is possible to disprove or support in a controlled environment.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

As I keep saying - the tips are take it or leave it. Why is that so hard to grasp ?

Its no harm to anyone else, is it ?

A tip sheet is not as list of "facts" but a list to help people.
Overkill much?

A differing opinion than yours is not overkill. And "tips" that are very likely not true can do harm to other people and/or their orchids.

Either way, I'm unsubscribing from this thread.

[Ordphien]

Originally Posted by Andrew

There are plenty of good breeders who spout unscientific twaddle in some form or another. They can leave milk out in the greenhouse for the pixies to drink for all I care so long as the seedlings are any good.

My problem is that "ALWAYS USE QUALITY PLANTS WHEN HYBRIDIZING" is tip number 16 and only gets 2 1/2 lines of explanation.

My grandma used to leave out honey for the faeries every night in her garden.
Whether she was serious or indulging me as a child I'll never know...
She taught me everything I know about gardening and while my garden is spectacular it will never ever be as good as hers.
I might start leaving honey out...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[kaede]

Well, that article link is no longer valid, but I did see it at the Big Orchid forum.

I actually like that article, can someone repost the current link ?