Unexpected Keiki

[Wild Orchid]

Originally Posted by rick84

chances are its a mutation that was caused by TC (tissue culture). Most cultivars are at some point going to be cloned. Some cultivators will add growth regulators to the growth media. Such as auxins, cytokinins, gibberellins and if done in excess or the wrong stage of plant development can sometimes cause mutations. Cultivators will give in excess to accelerate plant growth and phase development to put on market or make more stock for TC and eventually, market. Eventually these plant fail. Saddly in todays orchid market, the motives for money are at times overpowering to some cultivators over the quality.

Personally, I don't mind the cause at all, and have fun watching something out of ordinary happening.

[rick84]

Originally Posted by Wild Orchid

Personally, I don't mind the cause at all, and have fun watching something out of ordinary happening.

True, I too don't mind some mutations but to me, it depends on the type and where they are. No matter what- I am an orchid addict and will love and nurture every single one I get my hands on.

[ro0ter]

Hi everyone,

This is a very interesting subject for me as well, especially that I am just going through something similar: one of my phals had some beautiful spikes with flowers, and I didn`t cut the spikes once the flowers dropped. Later on I have seen that the mother plant starts drying its spikes but on one spike, near a "too heavy flower" bent spike a keiki started growing. I expected that the mother plant would only dry the spike to the respective node (as my white giant phal did with her 2 keikis). To my surprise, after I returned home, the spike was being dried all the way to the mother plant (brown, not being fed anymore).

I would like to save the keiki but it`s like 1cm long and it has no roots. It also seems to be dehidrated.

This is what I did: I created a humidifying bell from a o.5l water bottle, I carefully placed the keiki inside (anchored it pretty well) and I applied whipping willow water + nutrients at the base of the keiki. The brown spike is still "crunchy" - that is not dried yet, but in the drying process. Did I do anything wrong by cutting it? It was clear that the mother plant was not feeding the spike anymore..

Anyway, I am looking for advice on how to proceed further on. I have placed the keiki bottle near a window with NE orientation which has a very diffuse light (our apartment building is being renovated, windows have been covered with frosted foil on the outside).

Regards!

[JaneEyre]

Originally Posted by ro0ter

Hi everyone,

This is a very interesting subject for me as well, especially that I am just going through something similar: one of my phals had some beautiful spikes with flowers, and I didn`t cut the spikes once the flowers dropped. Later on I have seen that the mother plant starts drying its spikes but on one spike, near a "too heavy flower" bent spike a keiki started growing. I expected that the mother plant would only dry the spike to the respective node (as my white giant phal did with her 2 keikis). To my surprise, after I returned home, the spike was being dried all the way to the mother plant (brown, not being fed anymore).

I would like to save the keiki but it`s like 1cm long and it has no roots. It also seems to be dehidrated.

This is what I did: I created a humidifying bell from a o.5l water bottle, I carefully placed the keiki inside (anchored it pretty well) and I applied whipping willow water + nutrients at the base of the keiki. The brown spike is still "crunchy" - that is not dried yet, but in the drying process. Did I do anything wrong by cutting it? It was clear that the mother plant was not feeding the spike anymore..

Anyway, I am looking for advice on how to proceed further on. I have placed the keiki bottle near a window with NE orientation which has a very diffuse light (our apartment building is being renovated, windows have been covered with frosted foil on the outside).

Regards!

I'm not sure I have any advice to give. I probably would have cut it as well at that point. Hopefully the humidity in the bottle will help with the dehydration and it will start growing roots.

Good luck with your Keiki.

Keep us updated, I am very interested to see its progress.

[ro0ter]

Hi JaneEyre,

Thank you for the encouragement,

So far the keiki is the same (no growth, no revitalization). In the past couple of nights I have kept the keiki`s bottle opened since it`s a bit cold and I wouldn`t want for it to start to rot.

I have bought a coconut from the local superstore and using a syringe I have extracted some coconut water and used it on the keiki: a couple of drops near its base, and some in the water on the bottle`s bottom (which after a couple of days started to become white and jelly). I then rinsed the bottle and added clean drinking water.

Will keep you posted on its progress. I can only hope for the best.

[Floridan by Choice]

I had one of my phals present me with a keiki just after the blooms finished and just before she died. The spike slowly turned woody but I managed to keep the keiki alive by spraying frequently but it caught the mold and finally gave up the ghost itself before any roots appeared.

This keiki got me interested so I got some keiki paste and doped up several of my phals while they still had blooms. Of the 7 phals I pasted, three of them have pretty good sized keikis on them: the spikes on two of them are still green but the spike on the third is turning woody, just like the one that died. None of the keikis on any of the plants have any roots. I don’t think I am going to leave the keiki on the plant where the spike is turning woody, I am planning to spag and bag it. I stuck some pictures of the keikis below.

I’ve read a lot on keiki propagation and it appears it might take some time to get roots to show up, if ever. I live in Central Florida and mold is easy to get so am planning on using a few drops of Physan 20 in the water used to moisten the spag as a mold preventive. Also thinking about maybe using a maybe a few drops of Superthrive to try to give the growth of roots a boost.

Has anybody used Superthrive and/or Physan 20 on a spag and bag project? Think it might work to at least keep the mold from growing?

Has anyone used the powdered rooting hormone to help develop roots on keikis? Any thoughts on the subject?

[ro0ter]

Hi JaneEyre, everybody else who is interested,

The keyki does not look that good. A couple of weeks ago (a lot of) mold started to attack it but I got rid of the mold (I have been using coconut milk -- just bought a coconut, found the soft spot, used a serynge and extracted some milk... it spoils very fast btw). Anyway, it seems very soft at its base (where it is attached to the dried spike) but the mini-leaves are still fleshy. I have seen no progress so far (~1 month) but I am not abandoning it yet.

Anyway, the mother plant threw another keiki (basal keiki; possibly due to the fact that I have used whipping willow water on all my orchids) of which I have attached a couple of photos. This one looks nice and healthy.

Still, I am puzzled of why the mother plant throws the second keiki in less than two months. It (mother plant) also has a very nice and fleshy new leave that it grows (crown).

Regards,

[ro0ter]

I am as stunned as you all probably are.

For three lower leaves (out of which the lowest leave just dried out, but the plant has ~5 leaves, it never had more) the mother plant grew 3 separate keikis:
- the most lower one has a 2/3cm first leave and a ~5mm second leave
- the second is still a bud but it has leaves forming (1cm tall bud; it`s no flower stem, that`s for sure)
- the third is just appearing as we speak, it may have 5mm already and again - it`s not a flower stem...

The initial keiki was abandoned by the plant on a flower stem by drying it out. It did not make it.

The reason for all these keikis might be one of the following (experienced growers - please pick the most probable one):

1. The orchid`s roots were "burned" (frost spray bite) by the sprays I`ve been using to get rid of red mites (so far no freaky mite for 1 month); mother plant has some fresh healthy roots (not out of its higher levels, but out of its current roots)
2. The orchid was bought less than 1 year ago and might have been VERY doped, therefore the mother plant will die ... but will leave a couple of offsprings instead
3. The weeping willow water I`ve been using on my almost-dying dendrobiums for root growth (got 1 dendrobium to shoot 2 offsprings which develop nicely (each one has 2-3 1cm leaves), the other one only shot a 5mm offspring which kindda stopped developing ... sad...)

Anyway, I hope I`ll get my two weakened thai dendrobiums to live and manage to have three healthy keikis from this orchid (barring the abandoned spike keiki).

[Nexogen]

Originally Posted by ro0ter

I am as stunned as you all probably are.

For three lower leaves (out of which the lowest leave just dried out, but the plant has ~5 leaves, it never had more) the mother plant grew 3 separate keikis:
- the most lower one has a 2/3cm first leave and a ~5mm second leave
- the second is still a bud but it has leaves forming (1cm tall bud; it`s no flower stem, that`s for sure)
- the third is just appearing as we speak, it may have 5mm already and again - it`s not a flower stem...

The initial keiki was abandoned by the plant on a flower stem by drying it out. It did not make it.

The reason for all these keikis might be one of the following (experienced growers - please pick the most probable one):

1. The orchid`s roots were "burned" (frost spray bite) by the sprays I`ve been using to get rid of red mites (so far no freaky mite for 1 month); mother plant has some fresh healthy roots (not out of its higher levels, but out of its current roots)
2. The orchid was bought less than 1 year ago and might have been VERY doped, therefore the mother plant will die ... but will leave a couple of offsprings instead
3. The weeping willow water I`ve been using on my almost-dying dendrobiums for root growth (got 1 dendrobium to shoot 2 offsprings which develop nicely (each one has 2-3 1cm leaves), the other one only shot a 5mm offspring which kindda stopped developing ... sad...)

Anyway, I hope I`ll get my two weakened thai dendrobiums to live and manage to have three healthy keikis from this orchid (barring the abandoned spike keiki).

Do not watering dendrobium keiki, only roots if are 3-4 cm long, in old canes is enough food, plant need humidity around 60% and temperature between 20 and 30 degrees Celsius.
Here in the pictures is one example.

[ro0ter]

Hi,

The phal has now two nice basal keikis developing, the lowest one was (i guess) abandoned. Very glad with these two basal keikis.

Now, I have some concerns regarding two dendrobium keikis.

Please someone with experience on dendrobiums (really no clue what species, but from southern Thailand) give me some advice: I have two dendrobiums which fell prey to the red mite. The predator is now eradicated, but the thing is that one of the orchids lost all its leaves. The canes are full of health (green and well hydrated), but the plant also had some problems with root rot.

It threw two basal keikis at interval of 1 month but each of them stopped developing when no more than 5mm in height. Both keikis look healthy, good color, but they just sleep there. I think that mold might also be a problem (although not visible), therefore I used some insecticide-fungicide spray this weekend.

The other dendrobium has almost no more canes but it has a nice 3-leaves, 5cm tall keiki (this one developed quite nicely, hope it has some healthy roots, but I can`t see below the media and I`d rather just not disturb it).

What can I do to encourage keiki development once they started growing?

What is the recommended humidity? I usually have ~40-50% in-house humidity but I also use two 5-liter bottle bells with which I regularly spray on the inside and then cover the two dendrobiums.

Thank you!