Stem Propagation - Zygopetalum

[PaphMadMan]

Originally Posted by stefpix

Do Zygopetalums make keikis? would they need keiki paste? I am not sure all orchids make keikis from flower stems.

stem propagation seems interesting. wonder if it is easier than flasking seeds.

Keikis occur occassionally in enough various kinds of orchids that it seems likely it is possible to promote it in many others. I've never seen it in a Zygo, but all orchids have meristem tissue at every node and the hormones in keiki paste promote growth of dormant meristem tissue no matter what kind of plant it is. It may not have a high success rate in Zygos, but there is certainly no harm in trying. Maybe not from the flower stem. In orchids with pseudobulbs it seems to happen more from the side or top of the pseudobulb, but if someone is going to try they might as well try the dormant nodes low on the flower stem too.

Stem props are much less work and take much less time than seed flasking, but inducing keikis is even easier. Neither gives the huge number of plants that seed flasking does, but can give you a few low-tech clones of your plants much faster than waiting for them to be big enough to divide (where that is even possible).

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

I may do so. Can you recommend a brand available locally ? I am bidding on an e-bay item currently but its overseas sourced. Amazon is not much help either.
However - a question on using keiki paste. I remember reading that paste should only be applied before the node has "decided" to be a flower. If applied too late you don't get a keiki, you get a flower developing. Is this a correct interpretation ?
I also want to get experience in stem propagation so I will still do the zygo dry run.
Thanks for the input.

If reproductive potential has already been induced at a particular node, even at stages far too early to see, you are much less likely to be able to get it to switch to vegetative growth instead. In a Zygo I would try the nodes around the top of the pseudobulb rather then on flower stems.

I can't recommend a good source for keiki paste. It has been far too long since I used it myself.

[Angurek]

Originally Posted by stefpix

Do Zygopetalums make keikis? would they need keiki paste? I am not sure all orchids make keikis from flower stems.

Nope. None of the orchids in this group do.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

well I joined this group

LISTSERV 15.0 - PLANT-TC List at LISTS.UMN.EDU

There is a lot of other data available. However, caveat emptor. If you join this group you will receive a lot of e-mails from (mainly) academics asking the group for scientific-type advice.

That may be true, but sometimes it could apply to you in certain cases.

I sometimes take a peak at what they say.

---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

Originally Posted by stefpix

Do Zygopetalums make keikis? would they need keiki paste? I am not sure all orchids make keikis from flower stems.

Originally Posted by Angurek

Nope. None of the orchids in this group do.

Verified.

---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------

Originally Posted by PaphMadMan

Keikis occur occassionally in enough various kinds of orchids that it seems likely it is possible to promote it in many others. I've never seen it in a Zygo, but all orchids have meristem tissue at every node and the hormones in keiki paste promote growth of dormant meristem tissue no matter what kind of plant it is. It may not have a high success rate in Zygos, but there is certainly no harm in trying. Maybe not from the flower stem. In orchids with pseudobulbs it seems to happen more from the side or top of the pseudobulb, but if someone is going to try they might as well try the dormant nodes low on the flower stem too.

The rhizome - that's where the majority of the meristems are in Zygos. Much more reliable than using the nodes of the inflorescence.

[orchidsarefun]

is to do it yourself. I've had someone say you can stem propagate and others say you can't. As I was going to try anyway, I will see for myself.

Other sites that are choc-full of useful info are

https://lab.troymeyers.com/flasking/home.php

Lotte & Thomas Orchids

The latter site has an example of a phal stem propagation using a very straight forward technique - and basically no sterilisation required.
It would be great if we could get a mini-project together for people to experiment.

[PaphMadMan]

For those who have expressed doubt, I found a picture of a Zygopetalum keiki on another orchid forum, arising from the top of on old pseudobulb as I suggested in earlier posts. I'm not sure it is acceptable to post a link to another forum, but you may be able to find it if you google for 'keiki zygopetalum'. I will try to get permission to re-post the picture here.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Not too surprised that they could possibly keiki from the top of the pseudobulbs. In my experience, they rarely keiki in general.

Never seen one keiki from an inflorescence though.

---------- Post added at 08:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

The only way to know for sure is to do it yourself. I've had someone say you can stem propagate and others say you can't. As I was going to try anyway, I will see for myself.

Of course. Goes without saying. Just wanted to throw in my .

I just think the meristems along the rhizomes would give you far better results. Those dormant eyes are where they grow from. And when you have a healthy one in stock, they grow like weeds from those dormant eyes along the rhizome. Much more reliable than waiting for a keiki.

I just hypothesize that it'd translate over well into meristem culture for you if you tried it this way first, that's all.

I also kinda want to impress on you that when you're dealing with success in meristem culture you're talking in probabilities, as in, there will be a percentage of attempts that succeed a certain way, and a percentage of attempts that succeed a different way. I would keep that in mind in your trials.

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

Other sites that are choc-full of useful info are

https://lab.troymeyers.com/flasking/home.php

Lotte & Thomas Orchids

The latter site has an example of a phal stem propagation using a very straight forward technique - and basically no sterilisation required.

I wouldn't put too much weight with the Thomas and Lotte one. It's way over simplified.

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

It would be great if we could get a mini-project together for people to experiment.

This is a project that has the potential to be time consuming and somewhat costly (I understand it doesn't have to be terribly expensive, but you do still have to incur costs with some relatively inexpensive basic lab equipment). Just an fyi. There is potentially quite a bit of trial and error as well. Again, this is just my . Not trying to dissuade you, just want you to understand what you're in for.

[orchidsarefun]

- zygo stem propagation
- phal violacea stem propagation
- African violet leaf propagation
- Gloxinia leaf propagation
- Venus Flytrap leaf propagation
The entire process took about 3 hours, including medium cooling off time.
I'm hopeful, but at least if this doesn't work out, we know the process steps. Yep, would advise 2 people working together attempt this, much easier.
So now 4 weeks to new growth. I would think 3 days to see if fungus grows.
BTW - we used 15 unicorn vessels. In 2 of these the agar didn't set, but used them anyway.
Will keep you updated..........

[orchidsarefun]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

- zygo stem propagation
- phal violacea stem propagation
- African violet leaf propagation
- Gloxinia leaf propagation
- Venus Flytrap leaf propagation
The entire process took about 3 hours, including medium cooling off time.
I'm hopeful, but at least if this doesn't work out, we know the process steps. Yep, would advise 2 people working together attempt this, much easier.
So now 4 weeks to new growth. I would think 3 days to see if fungus grows.
BTW - we used 15 unicorn vessels. In 2 of these the agar didn't set, but used them anyway.
Will keep you updated..........

I had 3 zygo stem cuttings. I threw away 2 today as they were covered in a white fungus and I wasn't going to try and clean them. 1 is still OK.
My 2 violacea stem cuttings also developed ( grey ) fungus and I went through the re-cleaning process with those.
All other vessels are OK at this stage. No visible growth, I realise its probably going to take another 4 weeks for that.
First lesson is to thoroughly scrub down stems with a soft ( sterile ) toothbrush, I only discovered this later on another website.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

First lesson is to thoroughly scrub down stems with a soft ( sterile ) toothbrush, I only discovered this later on another website.

Scrubbing in my opinion will not help. If anything, it may introduce new pathogens and contaminants.

Try dipping the stems in a dishwashing detergent solution, or you can buy a product called Tween 20, for a few minutes before you sterilize using a 10% bleach solution.

Are you using a glove box or any such thing while you're doing this?

[orchidsarefun]

well out of 5 stems, I had 4 contaminated. Out of a total of 16 vessels I had the same 4 contaminated. So the logical conclusion is that the stems were not properly sterilised.
For the re-sterilisation I used 3% hydrogen peroxide.( I used a bleach/detergent mix initially ) but it was difficult to get the fungus off 100%. Yeuchh ! I don't hold out much hope for these 4, but who knows. I should have cleaned them sooner, but we were away.
I don't have a glove box. I may build/improvise one if I decide to do my own seeds. I suppose if I had one I wouldn't need another person to help !

As this was more about developing a process than anything else, I think its been a success so far.
* meant to say that I used a plastic bin laid on its side, as in the instruction manual that came with the kit