I have some seed to share - interested?

[Royal]

Originally Posted by Monstera deliciosa

Hello Royal, I think there is no legal problem, but if you are not sure or do not fell confortable with it, no problem.

Did you sow them yourself already? You had succes with them so far?

Regards,

Olivia

I am comfortable, just cautious. Let me do a bit more research.

I have sowed the Bletilla and had great success. I have not sowed the Phaius.

[Royal]

Originally Posted by kavanaru

as far as I know CITES would also be needed for seeds or pollen from plants which are CITES protected. (Note that if seeds would be able to be sent withoutthese permits, long ago you would have had Paph helenae and Paph hangianum and all vietnamese Paphiopedilum already legal in the USA!) my

Very true. CITES was designed for animals and no longer works well to actually protect plant species. Often it hinders it.

Originally Posted by kavanaru

I also know that some countries take teh CITES regulation easier than others, and that teh USA is the worst with it

Phytosanitary permits would also be needed for some countries (not sure about EU Countries)!!

Yes, it's the Phyto and plant exporter permits I worry about. Even without CITES, I would need a permit to send "live plants or plant material" out of the country - I think.

[kavanaru]

Originally Posted by Monstera deliciosa

Hello Ramon, that's exactly the same I said, some but very few need CITES, but are not the mentioned in this post.

Did you flask any Phap. so far? which media you use?

Regards,

Olivia

Indeed this is the text for App. II

All parts and derivatives, except:
a) seeds, spores and pollen (including pollinia);
b) seedling or tissue cultures obtained in vitro, in solid or liquid media, transported in sterile containers;
c) cut flowers of artificially propagated plants; and
d) fruits and parts and derivatives thereof of artificially propagated plants of the genus Vanilla.

Plants of App I are a different story, but Blettilla and Phaius are not part of it (you need to check for Phytosanitary and/or Import permits, which are a different story too...

Olivia, are you asking me for the paphios? I sent my seeds to a profesional grower (easier)

[Royal]

Understood. I'm not concerned with CITES, these species aren't listed. I am concerned about individual country's agricultural regulations.

[s1214215]

I will be blunt in this matter. Many countries dont give a toss about CITES/Phyto. They just say that do to make certain bodies/countries happy.

I live in Thailand and know of Thais who send all over the world with and without certs, for plants and seed. Other than fanatical countries like the USA and Australia, most of thier packages arrive they say.

As for seed, I dont think there is a worry. OSP is still running is it not? The OSP sends seed world wide. I can vouch for it as I have had 2 orders and over 30 packets of seed come from them..

Sending seed to the USA from abroad requires a Phyto and no CITES.

[Royal]

First, agricultural regulations keep foreign and invasive species at bay and the world's food crops safe. Some rules may be a bit stiff, but they are in place for a justifiable reason. I don't think it's fanatical to monitor what may come into a country piggy-backing on a harmless orchid.

Second, your friends may be brave but I'm not willing to take the risk of breaking any laws - intentionally or not.

And finally, yes, OSP ships all over. I'm sure they will accept your order. In fact, I just sent OSP lots of the same seed I'm sharing. It's just that I'm just trying to give them away. Frankly, I lose money just shipping them domestically. It's just not worth it for me do the legwork involved in getting permits and making sure that I'm not breaking any laws, only to ship them internationally at my expense. If you need seed, just order from OSP.

[RosieC]

Royal, you should only do what you feel happy doing. You are offering this as a favour after-all.

If you only happy if all the paperwork is in place (and I would be the same) but the paperwork, or even confirming to your own satisfaction what the paperwork is, is too much cost/hassel then that's that. That is your decision.

Here in the UK I know that pretty much all such offers are something I can't take advantage of. I accept that as just being how it is because of where I live compared to most OB members.

[s1214215]

Hi Royal

I was not having a go at you. Sorry, I should have
been clearer. I dont suggest you break the law. If anyone is to ship to another country, then it would be best to observe local laws. I was pointing out what is happening.

I am not against laws and rules to protect the environment. However, CITES has outlived its usefulness with regard to plants. Instead of helping conserve them, it has become a hindrance to international plant sharing, while a great deal of domestic trade continues unhindered in many place eg. Thailand, China. A better system is needed really as in the future many species will only be found in collections (if we are lucky) the way some countries are going. However, the fees for CITES and Phyto certs are locally administered, which allows for extortionary fees. A Phyto in Washington state is $150 and in North Carolina $45 if I remember correctly.

Local importation laws are necessary, but when fees and rules become ridiculous as in the case of Australia, it becomes another barrier to sharing. Sure, if there is the need to prevent invasives, it should be done. However, again some measures such as Methyl Bromide fumigation is a death sentence to many orchids. Other chemicals would do the job according to people I worked with in a related government dept.

The people I spoke of trading all over the world do so at their risk. I send flask and seed with certificates. I guess I am lucky here as a Phyto is US$1 and CITES is somewhere around that price - never needed it. Again, a better system is needed to regulate the kind of trade I spoke of. More reasonable prices too for certificate would help. $150 for a phyto is crazy.

Sure, I will continue to support the OSP and other seed banks as a customer and donator of seed. It does cost me money too, but sharing seed in this manner may preserve species I hope.

Sorry everyone if this has gone off topic.

[Royal]

Hey, no harm done and no offense taken.

[s1214215]

Hi Royal and other contributors.

I will have some limited packets of Habenaria species seed available to share in from Oct 25th.

So far I have H. Erichmichelii (3 pkt), the common orange form of H. Rhodocheila (3 Pkt) and a smaller amount of Pecteilis Sagarikii "Yellow lip form" (1 pkt). Is there any interest? I will list the other species as they are ready.

I will be ready to send by the 25th October if anyone wants them. I dont need seed in return. If you want it sent EMS you can pay for that (Paypal) or I can send by airmail which is cheaper but takes 10 days. If you need Phyto certs (USA) let me know as some countries do need them. A phyto is US$1 for me to get. I can get it when I go to send some flasks.

PM me and we can work out how and when to send.

Brett