Choosing Seeds (or How to Navigate the OSP Seed List) - Orchid Board

Jensine449 · #1 12-31-2008, 08:02 PM

Hi everyone!

Newbie here. I was looking through the Orchid Seedbank Project's seedlist and must confess...I don't know what many of those labels mean!

I'd like to learn more about propagating seeds...so besides technique, what am I looking for in a seed? And I don't mean breed of chid, color, etc. but...

Does it matter how many pods a plant has produced? Like are only the first 1 or 2 viable?

When it was harvested? Is it ever safe to assume that they are stored well with the OSP and the donors?

% Embryos? Help me understand what that means.

Spontaneous capsule?

In short, if you're ordering seeds from *somewhere*, what do you look for in order to increase your chances of success (independent of actual flasking technique)?

Thanks so much! BTW I've spent the last 3 hours reading threads in Propagation...don't tell anyone!!

gixrj18 · #2 01-01-2009, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jensine449

Hi everyone!

Newbie here. I was looking through the Orchid Seedbank Project's seedlist and must confess...I don't know what many of those labels mean!

I'd like to learn more about propagating seeds...so besides technique, what am I looking for in a seed? And I don't mean breed of chid, color, etc. but...

Does it matter how many pods a plant has produced? Like are only the first 1 or 2 viable?

When it was harvested? Is it ever safe to assume that they are stored well with the OSP and the donors?

% Embryos? Help me understand what that means.

Spontaneous capsule?

In short, if you're ordering seeds from *somewhere*, what do you look for in order to increase your chances of success (independent of actual flasking technique)?

Thanks so much! BTW I've spent the last 3 hours reading threads in Propagation...don't tell anyone!!

When ordering seeds, your best bet is to look for a percentage, or germination rate. If you see a germination rate, this means someone has previously flasked some of this seed, and has shared the outcome. Obviously, the higher the percentage, the better. Some seeds do not contain embryo (baby plants), these seeds will never germinate.....it is a 'lifeless egg". The percentage of actual viable seed varies constantly. Sometimes, 90-100% of the seed will germinate....sometimes 50% may germinate...and sometimes, nothing will germinate at all. It may happen in a week, it may happen in a month, year, or once again....not at all! Also, the higher the embryo count, the better your chances. Oh yeah, and I believe a "spontaneous" capsule would be the result of a naturally pollinated (via insects) seed pod......I think!

Sanoe · #3 01-01-2009, 03:19 AM

OSP (Aaron Hicks) gets a lot of his seed from Troy Meyers at Meyers Conservatory. I don't know if Aaron purchases the seed or if Troy donates excess to him. Troy get seed from 'donors' wishing to have him flask species for them. My experience is that fresh seed germinates better than older seed.

Royal · #4 01-08-2009, 05:35 PM

Actually, Troy gets a lot from AJ. Troy credits AJ with teaching him much of what he knows, so I'm sure there is seed traveling both ways. AJ only wants species, but Troy will do proprietary flasking of hybrids. The OSP gets most of their seed from donors, growers like you and me, scientists, naturalists, wild populations, and plants in cultivation. OSP is for species conservation and not a for profit flasking service.

Sanoe is right about seed freshness, the newer the better. Some don't have dates but the numbering system is serial, so the higher the number the newer the seed (I think). I also prefer wild collected plants over those in cultivation, but that's just me.

You can't assume anything about the seed except that it has been cared for properly once at the seed bank. The % embryos doesn't equal % viablitiy, but if given the choice, I always opt for the highest % with embryos.

Another piece of terminology not always understood is the x self, x sib, or x out. A self cross is pretty obvious. An outcross is the result of two plants of the same species but with different genetics (like a different geographical population). Selfing is a form of line breeding which will strengthen dominant characheristics resulting in more uniform offspring. Outcrossing "mixes" the gene pool a bit and should result in more variablitiy in it's progeny. A sibling cross is an outcross, but won't be quite as variable.

Royal · #5 01-08-2009, 05:44 PM

Jensine, If you're just looking to learn a bit and work on your technique, you may be able to find some seed to work with here on the board. It's good to know for sure that you have good seed to learn with - just one less variable. Let me know, I could part with a pinch to get you moving. Other OB members would help out too, you need only ask.

gixrj18 · #6 01-08-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalOrchids

Jensine, If you're just looking to learn a bit and work on your technique, you may be able to find some seed to work with here on the board. It's good to know for sure that you have good seed to learn with - just one less variable. Let me know, I could part with a pinch to get you moving. Other OB members would help out too, you need only ask.

I still have a bunch of seed left from the infamous "flhiker Dave" noid Dendrobium pod. You are welcome to some of that, if you'd like....and I've already de-flasked a bunch of them. So I can tell you that they were very viable seeds, germinating at about 90-95%, and they only took a couple weeks to germinate. Also, these were the Dendros that bloomed "in vitro", so you may get to experience that, too.

WeWerePirates · #7 09-19-2009, 08:37 PM

That was very good information. I had not come across the xOUT before and was wondering what that was.

For those of you that have gotten seed from the OSP before, what quantity of seed do you get when you order? I know it says it depends on the size and the other factors, but I was wondering what to expect so I know how many flasks and medium I will need.

Thanks,
John

Royal · #8 09-19-2009, 10:45 PM

It's hard to give a measurement. I'd say between 1/4 tsp to 1/2 tsp OR a mound the size of a dime or penny OR 5 -7 grains of rice. I normally sow half and save half.

King_of_orchid_growing:) · #9 09-20-2009, 12:42 AM

I usually get one packet per species. That's usually enough for most of the species Aaron has listed.

A word about the Vanda seeds. They need to be pretty fresh to be highly viable. Most Vanda seeds that have been stored for more than a month may be already too old.

I believe Phalaenopsis seeds lose viability very quickly as well. As does Disas.

Bletilla striata is apparently idiot proof as far as germinating. It also is one of the larger orchid seeds and have fairly large embryos that you can easily view through a 20x or 30x magnifier (60x magnification offers the best visibility of details for the larger orchid seeds). The Bletilla striata seeds have the added advantage of containing endosperm (endosperm is the food that a seed's embryo uses up to grow and germinate), while many orchid seeds do not. What this means is that you can sow them ex-vitro (ex-vitro: out of the bottle). It's also easier to see what the protocorms (a protocorm is a corm-like body of cells the embryo becomes when it germinates from an orchid seed that will later grow into a seedling) look like when they break out of the seed's protective coating (the seed coats on an orchid's seeds are called testa).

Just in case you come across this term, while the testa is the outermost layer of tissue that forms the seed coat of the orchid seed, inside the testa the embryo itself has a membrane surrounding it as well, called the carapace.

King_of_orchid_growing:) · #10 09-20-2009, 01:53 PM

I forgot to mention this, but this is worth bringing up...

As a beginner, I wouldn't go trying out Paphiopedilum, Cypripedium, or Epipactis seeds. These seeds require acute attention to detail to be sown properly. Many of them cannot be exposed to light or germination suffers greatly. Add on to that, they require a seasonal chilling then a gradual acclimation to warmth in order to germinate. While this sounds easy, it's actually very difficult to time right. I assume it'd be easier if you follow along with the seasons. Fresh seed helps too. There's also the need for a special agar medium for terrestrials. Murashige and Skoog may work okay, but many people have resorted to special formulae for these orchids.

Calypso seeds are also not for beginners. I don't know anyone who has successfully germinated these. If there are people who have, they haven't posted anything on the web yet...

Any of the non-photosynthetic orchid seeds are a big no-no for beginners. Don't even try. They require special fungi to germinate, that's why they're non-photosynthetic. One example of a non-photosynthetic species is Neottia nidus-avis (aka Bird's Nest Orchid).