Choosing Seeds (or How to Navigate the OSP Seed List)

[WeWerePirates]

Thanks for all the info.

This is going to be my first time trying to flask, so I'm sure it will be an adventure.

Here are a couple that I thought I might try from the OSP:
brassavola cucullata
dendrobium draconis
and I have some seed pods on a couple of my plants:
Encyclia Tampensis
Trichoglottis brachiata

Hopefully none of them will be too difficult.

I will start searching the board (and the web) for some good tips and hints on how many flasks to make and how many times to re-flask. From what I have seen so far, it looks like 3 or 4 small flasks (of each seed) might be good to start with and then re-flask (is that the right term) either once or twice.

Thanks again,
John

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

The Trichoglottis brachiata I recommend not using bleach as a disinfectant. I don't recommend the use of chlorine related products for disinfecting the Trichoglottis seeds either.

Every other known disinfecting agent used in flasking is better suited, in my opinion.

Some orchids may be overly sensitive to bleach. I'd be careful and read up on this subject first.

[mah06091]

Originally Posted by Jensine449

Hi everyone!

Newbie here. I was looking through the Orchid Seedbank Project's seedlist and must confess...I don't know what many of those labels mean!

I'd like to learn more about propagating seeds...so besides technique, what am I looking for in a seed? And I don't mean breed of chid, color, etc. but...

Does it matter how many pods a plant has produced? Like are only the first 1 or 2 viable?

When it was harvested? Is it ever safe to assume that they are stored well with the OSP and the donors?

% Embryos? Help me understand what that means.

Spontaneous capsule?

In short, if you're ordering seeds from *somewhere*, what do you look for in order to increase your chances of success (independent of actual flasking technique)?

Thanks so much! BTW I've spent the last 3 hours reading threads in Propagation...don't tell anyone!!

It's funny you mentioned that ,,, I just emailed the OSP myself cause I'm confused at their site, What i I did though was to just copy/paste the species type into google to get an idea of what type of plant it was, what I don't really like is that some of them were ground orchids which really don't even require micropropagation, they grow in the ground with regular soil, I noticed on their phals that they have a note stating that the seeds don't last long so I emailed asking them requesting informations on something that I can grow in Fla that has high germination rates, I ', also confused on their dates, many of them are years old so you don't know how much that matters, If I hear from them I will let oyu know...

[mah06091]

Originally Posted by WeWerePirates

Thanks for all the info.

This is going to be my first time trying to flask, so I'm sure it will be an adventure.

Here are a couple that I thought I might try from the OSP:
brassavola cucullata
dendrobium draconis
and I have some seed pods on a couple of my plants:
Encyclia Tampensis
Trichoglottis brachiata

Hopefully none of them will be too difficult.

I will start searching the board (and the web) for some good tips and hints on how many flasks to make and how many times to re-flask. From what I have seen so far, it looks like 3 or 4 small flasks (of each seed) might be good to start with and then re-flask (is that the right term) either once or twice.



Thanks again,
John

Hi there
I'm considering purchasing from the OSP but I see the dates on the draconis is from 2004 , does it matter the year that they received the seed pod? Obviously it worked for you... I was just a bit apprehensive..also assuming that for the $4 you get the entire seed pod? sorry if the questions are basic
Thanks
Arleene

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by mah06091

Hi there
I'm considering purchasing from the OSP but I see the dates on the draconis is from 2004 , does it matter the year that they received the seed pod? Obviously it worked for you... I was just a bit apprehensive..also assuming that for the $4 you get the entire seed pod? sorry if the questions are basic
Thanks
Arleene

The amount of seeds depends on the amount of the yield per seed pod.

If the pods were small and they didn't produce a lot of seeds or most of them weren't viable even when they first came out of the pod, you're not getting a whole lot.

But Aaron is usually good about being generous with the amount of seeds you receive per packet. So there shouldn't be any fear of not getting enough.

Shelf life of a seed may be very crucial for certain species.

For example, I would not get a Phal, Vanda, or Disa packet if they were over 6 to 8 months old. And this is being "conservative" and "nice". Really, if it were me, if the Phal, Vanda, or Disa seeds were older than 3 to 4 months I'd not buy them.

Other seeds have longer shelf lives though.

So it really depends on the genus or species.

[Royal]

Even terrestrial orchids and less "desireable" species need conservation! And most do need propagated in vitro.

The dates are usually the harvest date. Seed donors are hard to come by so some seed is old. Some orchid seed can last years and years, some are just short lived. Some donors hold on to them for a while, use what they want then donate the rest. It's a mixed bag - buy the freshest available, but don't count anything out based on age.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by mah06091

It's funny you mentioned that ,,, I just emailed the OSP myself cause I'm confused at their site, What i I did though was to just copy/paste the species type into google to get an idea of what type of plant it was, what I don't really like is that some of them were ground orchids which really don't even require micropropagation, they grow in the ground with regular soil, I noticed on their phals that they have a note stating that the seeds don't last long so I emailed asking them requesting informations on something that I can grow in Fla that has high germination rates, I ', also confused on their dates, many of them are years old so you don't know how much that matters, If I hear from them I will let oyu know...

Interesting...

Originally Posted by RoyalOrchids

Even terrestrial orchids and less "desireable" species need conservation! And most do need propagated in vitro.

The dates are usually the harvest date. Seed donors are hard to come by so some seed is old. Some orchid seed can last years and years, some are just short lived. Some donors hold on to them for a while, use what they want then donate the rest. It's a mixed bag - buy the freshest available, but don't count anything out based on age.

I agree with Royal. Terrestrial orchids are just as threatened in the wild as are epiphytes.

A member here from South Africa wrote an article a year ago or so about the possible extermination of a local population of Disa cornuta and Satyriums due to the possibility of construction. Him and a group of his neighbors were finding ways to preserve their beloved orchids.

Luckily construction was halted due to overwhelming petitions against it.

You can find this article in the Scientific Matters forum. The member's screen name is Des.

The other thing is...

There are many terrestrial orchid species which have seeds that need to be micropropagated via in-vitro methods in order to gain a high yield as well.

Especially when you're growing them away from their natural environment.

While it is true that certain ones are very difficult to micropropagate because they are non-photosynthetic orchids that rely heavily on orchid mycorrhizae for survival. The majority of terrestrial orchids are not like this and can be micropropagated successfully. Albeit, the task is not so straightforward and can be difficult for a beginner to acheive.

Here's a quick little, very basic intro to orchid seed germination in the wild:

Most orchid seeds do not have what is called endosperm. Think of endosperm as kind of like a yolk sac.

Many orchids depend on orchid mycorrhizae to germinate.

The process of orchid mycorrhizae infecting the orchid seeds and initiating orchid seed germination, can be pretty technical, complex, and outright confusing. Therefore, this subject will be left for another time.

I encourage you to do more reading and research on the subject of orchid seeds and orchid seed germination.

A good lead would be to look through some articles in peer reviewed scientific journals on-line about the subject. Do a Google Scholar search and type in orchid seeds. A lot of articles will pop up on the subject. There are many you would have to pay for to access the entire article. Some can be downloaded for free. If you're associated with an university, then you may be able to access all the articles for free.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

There are also books on the subject.

Aaron Hicks wrote one and he sells it through the OSP website. Another book is Terrestrial Orchids from Seed to Mycotrophic Plants.

BTW, most Paphs are geophytes (terrestrial, lithophytes, etc), and they're high on the endangered species list.

[mah06091]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Interesting...



I agree with Royal. Terrestrial orchids are just as threatened in the wild as are epiphytes.

A member here from South Africa wrote an article a year ago or so about the possible extermination of a local population of Disa cornuta and Satyriums due to the possibility of construction. Him and a group of his neighbors were finding ways to preserve their beloved orchids.

Luckily construction was halted due to overwhelming petitions against it.

You can find this article in the Scientific Matters forum. The member's screen name is Des.

The other thing is...

There are many terrestrial orchid species which have seeds that need to be micropropagated via in-vitro methods in order to gain a high yield as well.

Especially when you're growing them away from their natural environment.

While it is true that certain ones are very difficult to micropropagate because they are non-photosynthetic orchids that rely heavily on orchid mycorrhizae for survival. The majority of terrestrial orchids are not like this and can be micropropagated successfully. Albeit, the task is not so straightforward and can be difficult for a beginner to acheive.

Here's a quick little, very basic intro to orchid seed germination in the wild:

Most orchid seeds do not have what is called endosperm. Think of endosperm as kind of like a yolk sac.

Many orchids depend on orchid mycorrhizae to germinate.

The process of orchid mycorrhizae infecting the orchid seeds and initiating orchid seed germination, can be pretty technical, complex, and outright confusing. Therefore, this subject will be left for another time.

I encourage you to do more reading and research on the subject of orchid seeds and orchid seed germination.

A good lead would be to look through some articles in peer reviewed scientific journals on-line about the subject. Do a Google Scholar search and type in orchid seeds. A lot of articles will pop up on the subject. There are many you would have to pay for to access the entire article. Some can be downloaded for free. If you're associated with an university, then you may be able to access all the articles for free.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

There are also books on the subject.

Aaron Hicks wrote one and he sells it through the OSP website. Another book is Terrestrial Orchids from Seed to Mycotrophic Plants.

BTW, most Paphs are geophytes (terrestrial, lithophytes, etc), and they're high on the endangered species list.

Thanks for the info, I didnt' know that on the terrestials, I thought they could be proprogated by division or keiki offsets, tough I am more interested in proprating the epiphytic type orchids.
I've done quite a bit of reading,(perhaps not enough) but was successful in self pollination of a phal for hobbie purposes and was able to see protocorns,,,,unforuntately I kept opening up the bottles in excitement and caused contamination, ( i know stupid) which is why I'm now searching for viable seeds.

Thanks again
arleene

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

As far as the terrestrial orchids are concerned. Asexual reproduction by producing offshoots is possible for terrestrials. But asexual reproduction doesn't shuffle the gene pool. Offshoots from the mother plant are still genetically identical to the mother plant.

Sexual reproduction creates much higher variations in genetic diversity. That's why they still produce seeds.

But in the wild, those hundreds to thousands of seeds don't all make it. For some species, only a small fraction of seeds germinate and make it to become a sexually mature plant. That's why certain species of orchids you'll see hundreds of individuals in a colony. While others are in small isolated colonies of a little more than 10 individuals. Population varies with locality as well.

As for micropropagation...

Everybody makes mistakes. Mistakes are great learning tools, just as much as successes are.

If you're trying to find Phalaenopsis seeds from the OSP...well...

Unfortunately, you'll most likely have a difficult time finding Phalaenopsis seeds for the reason that they have a very short shelf life.

It's better to buy a blooming sized Phalaenopsis plant and pollinate it yourself to obtain seeds.