Phal. seeds without embryos

[Luiz]

Dear all,

I attempted some crosses between large white Phalaenopsis and between large pink Phalaenopsis (unfortunatelly I don't know the exact varieties I was crossing).

The resulting seeds (90 to 100%) are mainly without embryos as seen under the microscope.

I collected 5 seed pods from each mother plant, and so I wonder if the high seed sterility was due to genetics or to the energy depletion caused by too many pods on one plant.

Could anybody comment on that?

Thank you very much!


Luiz

[Royal]

Tough to tell. Is each capsule only 10% viable? If each capsule showed this same result, I'd say it's genetics. If seed failed to develop due to too many flowers being pollinated, I would expect some capsules to set good seed and some to just abort completely. You should be able to figure it out by looking at seed from each capsule (unless they have all been mixed).

[doodlekitty]

So if you're a "do-it-yourselfer-in-the-kitchen" kinda hobbiest, what type of microscope would be good enough to look at seeds to check for embryos?

[Luiz]

Thank you very much for your reply, Royal.

I crossed 6 hybrids in all combinations (including selfings) and harvested about 24 pods, after one of the pods split. They were put in the fridge without dehydration for about 2 months. Most of them got contaminated on the surface.

Nothing germinated and the 4 pods sampled showed that 10% viability.

Because there were so many pods and crosses and despite of this no germination at all, I suspect it wasn't genetics.

What do you think of a 15 minute exposition to 0.83% hypocloride of the green pod? Could it affect the seeds inside somehow? Or could the surface contamination have affected them (there was no flask contamination though)? Or the cold in the fridge? And how wrong could the media be (he used the same media for Brassias and Zygopetalum and it worked)?

The lab person described the pod contents as not dry, but stuck together as if not ripe yet. Could it be that the one pod to split, which made me harvest all the others, was so far advanced in time?

Finally, do you think that the plant will limit the amount of pods it can carry and only keep the ones it can make viable? In the case of a healthy Phal., what would be the maximum number of pods it would be advisable to shoot for? 5 or 6?

Thank you very much!


Luiz

[Royal]

Doodlekitty, Use the best scope you can find. You don't need an oil immersion lens, but a dissecting scope won't cut it. 400x should do (10x occular + 40x)

Luiz, Green capsules still contain lots of moisture. They should be sowed soon after harvesting. Cold storage + moisture = contamination. To store them in the fridge you really need to harvest mature seed from a split capsule, desiccate, and then store in the fridge. (Phal seeds are notorious for being short-lived)

The seed inside immature green caps does look kind of wet and grainy. They could be viable, but might not be. Presence of embryos doesn't guarantee viability. It sounds like they may have been harvested a little early.

If a capsule is green and has not split, it is sealed and any disinfectant won't affect the seed inside. But If contamination has spread through the capsule tissue, the seed may be ruined.

If disinfecting a green capsule, you may use whatever concentration you like - it won't kill the seed. If using bleach (6% Na Hypochlorite) you can just use a 1:10 ratio on dry seed, or higher concentrations on a green cap.

As for the number of seed capsules a Phal can set - I have no clue. I'd guess that 20+ is a little stressful to the poor plant. Kind of like a mama dog with 4,000 puppies.

[Prime]

Just curiosity! What actually happens to the flower after pollination? (as in stage by stage) What will a beginning pod would look like and what are the signs telling that the pollination is successful?

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

1. Stigmatic opening closes.
2. Lip closes the stigmatic opening.
3. Column swell up.
4. Ovaries swell up.
5. Ovaries start growing larger and column shortens.
6. Some orchids have petals, sepals, and lip shrivel. Other orchids have petals, sepals, and lip turn green and thicken, then shrivel.
7. Seed pod keeps developing.
8. Seed pod interior lining for the seeds develop.
9. Seeds develop.
10. Seed pod matures and starts to split from the base.
11. Seed pod bursts open.

[Prime]

Thanks King (King of Orchid Growing)!

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I forgot to mention.

Some orchids have their stigmatic opening closed until the anther caps are popped off. After some time, (timing depends on the orchid), the stigmatic opening opens.

[Prime]

Thanks Again King! But I'm actually interested in pollinating phals, it's actually one of my phals that I'm sort of liking to propagate more. I've tried pollinating it and I don't know if I did it right or if the flower will pursue into being a pod. Is there some pictures that you could show me? Many Thanks Again King... you're the best!