Can you reproduce Phal x self?

[uwodahikamama]

My question is 2 part, and I haven’t seen an answer online.
I have some Phals that are currently only carried by one specific nursery. I believe they imported one and then the other is a cross they made themselves.
Am I able to use these plants to make a new cross? I guess technically and legally.
Also am I able to cross the import by itself by just pollinating one of the flowers on the plant? Are there reasons this may not work, like genetics? Legal reasons because only this place carries the plant?
I’m not sure if there are restrictions on propagation, either genetically or legally.

[Ray]

Yes, it is possible, both technically and ethically/legally.

There may be genetic issues that prevent fertility, but you’re going to need to learn about that and the details of the specific plants.

[uwodahikamama]

Originally Posted by Ray

Yes, it is possible, both technically and ethically/legally.

There may be genetic issues that prevent fertility, but you’re going to need to learn about that and the details of the specific plants.

Ok thank you! I was tumbling down the rabbit hole of reproduction and decided to fertilize some orchids then I had questions after.
This is really just something fun to try, and a learning opportunity. It is all fascinating!

[Louis_W]

Pollinating a plant with itself is called "Selfing" which is a common term when talking about plant breeding.

[uwodahikamama]

Originally Posted by Louis_W

Pollinating a plant with itself is called "Selfing" which is a common term when talking about plant breeding.

Ooohh I’ve seen tags that say x self, but wasn’t sure if it was truly as simple as that.
Since it’s a hybrid I thought I read that the results of breeding to self can sometimes be unpredictable.
I’m curious to see what I end up with! Unfortunately I’m sure it will be awhile till I have any blooming plants, but eventually I may have something to show for it. 🤞
I guess now I cross my fingers that it’s all successful and I get a couple good flasks eventually….

[Louis_W]

Ya selfing is not the same as cloning because the genomes split in half and recombine in a somewhat chaotic way. This results in a bunch of individuals that are like siblings kinda.

The word among breeders is that seed to flower takes about 7 years depending. I really hope it works for you. Is there anything specific you are trying to achieve or just exploring?

[uwodahikamama]

Originally Posted by Louis_W

Ya selfing is not the same as cloning because the genomes split in half and recombine in a somewhat chaotic way. This results in a bunch of individuals that are like siblings kinda.

The word among breeders is that seed to flower takes about 7 years depending. I really hope it works for you. Is there anything specific you are trying to achieve or just exploring?

Ooohhhh that is good info!! My cousin is a geneticist but I can’t ask her this stuff since as far as I know she hasn’t studied plant propagation.

So how exactly would you clone something? Divisions/keikis?

7 years is an incredibly long time (for me, I am impatient), is it any shorter with mini Phals?

I’m not really going for anything specific, just exploring with what I’ve got This is all quite new to me, and I’m curious to see what happens! Maybe something pretty or unusual will happen 🤞

[TZ-Someplace]

A lot of the complex phals (like miniphals) will not reproduce because of the genetics they carry. If they are the product of a 2n plant crossed with a 4n plant their 3n chromosome set can't halve to make reproductive cells. And, sometimes the chromosome sets from the different parent species within a plant will tend to stay/move together and not want to work in combination with others when you try to make a cross with the plant.

Cloning takes a small amount of tissue from a growth tip (bud zone - meristem), puts it into growth medium to make a bigger blob of cells, dissociates the cells in the big blob into hundreds or thousands of smaller blobs and then grows those into plants.

You can get a few quick clones by putting a product called Keikei paste on the bud tissue under the bud scales along a flower spike to promote the bud to grow into a new little plant.

[estación seca]

Growing orchids from seed is completely different from other plants. It needs a lab with equipment for sterile technique. Do some reading.

[uwodahikamama]

Originally Posted by TZ-Someplace

A lot of the complex phals (like miniphals) will not reproduce because of the genetics they carry. If they are the product of a 2n plant crossed with a 4n plant their 3n chromosome set can't halve to make reproductive cells. And, sometimes the chromosome sets from the different parent species within a plant will tend to stay/move together and not want to work in combination with others when you try to make a cross with the plant.

Cloning takes a small amount of tissue from a growth tip (bud zone - meristem), puts it into growth medium to make a bigger blob of cells, dissociates the cells in the big blob into hundreds or thousands of smaller blobs and then grows those into plants.

You can get a few quick clones by putting a product called Keikei paste on the bud tissue under the bud scales along a flower spike to promote the bud to grow into a new little plant.

Oooh I’m going to have to try the keikei paste method! That sounds simple enough.

For the cloning with tissue from a growth tip what sort of medium do you put it into? Is that something done in a lab setting?

How do I know if plants (or parent plants of a plant) are 2n or 4n? This is the sort of info I was hoping to figure out, whether there’s genetic incompatibility with the plants before I spend the money to try to breed them. 😬

---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------

Originally Posted by estación seca

Growing orchids from seed is completely different from other plants. It needs a lab with equipment for sterile technique. Do some reading.

Yes, I plan to send it to someone with a lab who does this, I won’t be actually doing that part myself.