How to know when seed pods are ready?

[sweetas647]

Hi all,

Apologies if this question has been asked a bunch already, this is my first time on this particular forum (and first time giving flasking a go!).

I have an Aerangis curnowiana (or maybe punctata) with two seed pods (I believe... I did not pollinate the flowers myself and this was the first time this plant flowered for me). It stopped flowering around 11/15 and I've attached a photo of what the plant looks like now.

I want to give flasking a try, hopefully with this plant but if not then sometime down the line. I've heard of people waiting until the seed pods burst to flask but have also heard of starting before the pod bursts.

So I'm wondering if a) there is a minimum amount of time you should wait before flasking or if there are signs other than the seed pod bursting to indicate the seeds are ready and b) is this universal to all orchids or are there certain genera that are quick/slow to incubate their seeds.

Thanks in advance!

[Bayard]

I have never tried flasking, so the only advice I have is watch them. Sometimes a line will appear in the capsules before they are about to dehisce. Those capsules can open very quickly!

[Mr.Fakename]

Every species has its own maturation time, even within the same genus (Phalaenopsis equestris is about 3-4 months, Phal violacea 12 months).

A good indicator is a change in colour or texture on your pod. If there is browning/yellowing on either end, or the flesh gets wrinkly, it most likely means it will drop soon.

As Bayard mentions, they go from ripe to seed explosion VERY fast, so get your flasking materials ready!

[Shadeflower]

hi sweet as,
They look half way done to me but this year will be my first proper attempt. I have bought all the supplies.
Lots of supplies...
Need to get a few jars ready still. Fill them with agar medium.
And wait a bit longer.

From what I've gathered either the ridges on the pod start to turn yellow or the stem starts to turn yellow but I've never seen it before.

My own pod has just started changing shape after 3 months. Before it was elongated like a trumpet but now it has started to swell up a bit like a snake that has eaten a golf ball.

From what I understand but I might be wrong the procedure changes a little if you let it burst vs green pod sowing.

Once the seeds have burst they have developed a hard protective coating and they take longer to germinate than greenpod seeds. So with dry seeds it is beneficial to immerse them in a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution in a syringe and sow them coated in the peroxide so they can germinate faster.

With green pod seeds you don't want to soak them because they have no coating and are sensitive to the peroxide so you just sprinkle them directly onto the media as long as you manage to keep them sterile throughout doing so.

[Fairorchids]

It is very tricky. Generally, you can do dry seed sowing once the pod starts turning yellow, but you usually get better germination if do green seed sowing. Judging when to harvest for green seed sowing is difficult.

For Paphiopedilum (12-15 months for dry seed), the rule of thumb is 10 months.

For Cattleyas, it varies from 100 days to 6-7 months (depending upon species). Most hybrids are in 5 month range.

I have no experience with Angracoids. You need to search on the web and in the literature, and then make an educated guess.

[sweetas647]

Awesome, great information - sounds like I've got a bit more to go before these are ready. Thanks everyone!

[Mr.Fakename]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

Once the seeds have burst they have developed a hard protective coating and they take longer to germinate than greenpod seeds. So with dry seeds it is beneficial to immerse them in a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution in a syringe and sow them coated in the peroxide so they can germinate faster.

With green pod seeds you don't want to soak them because they have no coating and are sensitive to the peroxide so you just sprinkle them directly onto the media as long as you manage to keep them sterile throughout doing so.

Seed scarification can be important, but for most of the things you'll sow it doesn't matter.
The goal of sterilant is to properly disinfect the seeds, not break embryo dormancy (although it is a byproduct).

H2O2 is relatively harmless if you leave some, as it breaks down into oxygen and water; but unless you want to experiment, it's a bad idea to avoid rinsing the solution you used.
Some seeds are very fragile, and you could definitely toast them by doing so.

In case you're unsure about seed dormancy and scarification, take a look at publised scientific articles. Here's one that should give you a better understanding: (PDF) Optimal scarification times for seeds of two Mediterranean orchids

[Grautier]

None of the epiphytic seeds I've seen under a microscope had any type of hard coating ...

[Fairorchids]

Originally Posted by Grautier

None of the epiphytic seeds I've seen under a microscope had any type of hard coating ...

Shadeflower is writing about something he doesn't understand.

[Shadeflower]

that's right. Listen to Mr Kim if you want to know as much as him.

According to him that would be everything there is to know.

His seeds never go moldy and everything he grows turns into a magic bean stalk.

Heard it all before. I am not a seed pod so it is hard to know what it is like to be a seed pod but kim I can picture as one.

I will get more satisfaction scarifying my seeds properly.

Kim gets more satisfaction gloating about whatever it is he thinks he can do better.

Anyone can grow seedlings. But to germinate seeds is a different matter.

I'm sure OB will appreciate your useful insights Kim even if you will never share any of it apart from how clueless the rest of us are.

Much appreciated like always. You will no doubt one day enrich us with your great hybrids I presume will come one day? I mean if no useful insights then I'd rather listen to a toad that to you.

If you are ever planning to bring out some new crosses, great. That's what we want to hear, not how you know all about breeding but then never bring out any crosses.

I'd much rather know less and think of the seeds needing a bit of soaking first then to know it all and never use that knowledge!

Whatever if this is a flower measuing contest I lose. My "greenhouse" is more suited for smaller orchids.