Seed flasking: lab having difficulty with disinfection

[Dorchid]

More? You contributed nothing. Are discussions and the sharing of information not to be organic and only facilitated in an institutional and utilitarian manner? I feel our conversation above is helpful in that it may contain information that op is not aware of, illustrate other approaches and possibly lead to the information they seek in a roundabout way. It doesn't answer op's question per se, but it is far from off-topic. Being passive aggressive, willfully obtuse and playing mod are more irritating and disruptive.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Dorchid, Oyarzabal and Ray:

Thank you for your comments.

Dorchid, I appreciate the article regarding antibiotics and antifungal chemicals, I will pass it on to the lab. From what I know of the lab, this is a professional operation that employs sterile techniques, and I suspect like most labs, they follow a set of protocols to obtain consistent results.

I am specifically not mentioning the lab name because I do think that the problem I am facing with this flasking attempt could honestly be out of their control (I don't want to tarnish a lab's reputation if the problem is mine and not theirs).

Regarding green pod (vs. dry seed), yes, I agree with all of you that green pod would have been preferable. Based on past experience with my Cattleyas, seed pods have matured 3 months or more later than this pod started to dehisc. I was left with the opportunity to have the dry seed flasked, or wait until I could make the cross again. I chose to try flasking this seed, and encountered a problem.

Although the discussion of flasking techniques is interesting for me, I'm sure the lab has already done this hundreds of times (or more likely, thousands of times).

Reading Ray's comments, I don't think there was any snarkiness in either of his posts. Full stop. Ray and I sometimes get into technical disagreements on various subjects, but please be fair. IMO, he was just trying to get the discussion back on subject, which I appreciate.

My reason for making this post was to see if anyone had experience with a similar problem, and to see if they found a way to solve it. Or, to see if someone had worked with a lab that had solved such a problem. If I found a solution that I thought I could implement, I would try again with some of the seed I have saved.

Other than passing along that article to the lab, something I have thought of trying is to "prep" the seed by decontaminating it before I ship it. There is a sticky on Orchidboard under the Propagation subheading Very Easy Sterilisation Method - My Seedlings. I have thought about using a modified version of the sterilization technique described in that discussion, on just the seed (that I have saved), before shipping. Believe me, I know, this would be a "shot in the dark", but who knows, maybe it would work? I have used that method to successfully germinate orchid seed and produce seedlings.

I am still hoping there are better ideas out there among the Orchidboard community.

[Ray]

Dorchid - no need to be insulting.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by Dorchid

More? You contributed nothing. Are discussions and the sharing of information not to be organic and only facilitated in an institutional and utilitarian manner? I feel our conversation above is helpful in that it may contain information that op is not aware of, illustrate other approaches and possibly lead to the information they seek in a roundabout way. It doesn't answer op's question per se, but it is far from off-topic. Being passive aggressive, willfully obtuse and playing mod are more irritating and disruptive.

This was posted about 2 minutes prior to my last post, therefore i didn't read it until after that post was made. There is no need to insult Ray for trying to focus back on the questions I asked; the insults are certainly off-topic, and not helpful.

[Dorchid]

Fair enough...my apologies to Ray for the insult and to you for derailing the thread. I reached out to my contact at Orchids For the People and he's checking with their lab tech on your question. I haven't heard back yet but sounds like the age of the seed, how it was collected and stored are the major concerns. You might reach out to them as they provide dry seed sowing services. Seed Propagation | Orchids for the People!

[WaterWitchin]

Okay guys... I've started following this thread since it took a downhill turn when I looked at it this morning.

I know nada about flasking, deflasking, lab techniques... dehiscing? is that even a word? And I was still unsure what was going on, and why y'all got frisky with each other. Because I wasn't even sure what the question was. I think I get it...now. OW can correct me if I'm wrong. The question is he still has some seeds left, and he wants to know if any member here knows of different techniques he can try to enhance his luck for sending the rest of them to the lab to proceed.

The other stuff Dorchid and Oyarzabal put out is interesting, but now appears this isn't OrchidWhisperer's first rodeo either. I don't know if the rest of ya know that or not. I didn't know any of ya did the mad scientist thing.

Having said that... let's cease arguing, as it does nothing to answer OW's question. He indicates the lab he's using appears competent in his view. So back to the topic hand please... OW still has some seeds left, and he wants to know if any member here knows of different techniques he can try to enhance his luck for sending the rest of them to the lab to proceed. And OW, please feel free to correct me if I haven't presented your question correctly.

Y'all have a nice day and enjoy the orchid passion...

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------

Aaaaand it appears I was posting at same time as Dorchid. Except I'm long winded. Gracias to all, and carry on!!

[Oyarzabal]

@orchid whisper. If you are going the route of pre disinfecting the seeds. I read once a peer review paper about seed disinfection using chlorine gas and formaldehyde. The formaldehyde beat up Clorox in their experiment. I do not know if I read the paper in Spanish, Portuguese, or English. I will try to find it and post it.
I do not believe there will be bug able to escape a good disinfection. Aaron Hicks recommends to soak the seeds is a sugary solution for 24 hours before disinfection, I think it was 10% sugar. Gram negative will encapsulate themselves when things are not going well and can be hard to kill. They come out of their spores to feast in the sugar.
Soaking your seed in sugar water for 24h and them gassing them probably will solve your problem.

Found the paper.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

I also read another paper about seed storage and there is direct relation between drying the seeds and mortality. So, the secret most be to strike a balance between dry enough not to encourage bacterial growth and not dry enough to kill the seeds. Low temperature also had a direct link to mortality in that paper. Steven Christoffersen told me he store his seed at around 68 Fahrenheit. And if that is good for him. I will go alone.

---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

Oops that was the same paper they use in the other discussion.
If you are using Clorox, this should be more effective method. He uses hydrochloric acid to release the gas in the Clorox solution. Language is a some kind of Slavic language, but it has English subtitles.

[Dorchid]

Whoa, who needs a flow hood when you’ve got chlorine gas? That’s some crazy shit.

[Oyarzabal]

@Dorchid. If you think Chlorine gas is dangerous, wait until I post the orchid seed disinfection method using Zyclon B

[Dorchid]

😜