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I thought I bought Minature Phals...

I bought from a seller "miniature Phals"

They came in 2 inch pots, had small flowers and small leaves.

Now they are 1+ years in my terrarium and they smaller then your standard grocery store Phal, but they are LARGE plants.

It seemed that they were small from growing conditions?
I think I want something geneticly small?

I bought some more orchids online.
Not sure how small, maybe I need to post some names.

In my orchid society, the definition of miniature is 'plant less than 6" in height. There is no limit on width, and spikes may extend above 6".

It is not unusual to see 'mini Phal' hybrids with 6-8" leaves, so you now a foot+ total spread. You may have to go with species.

First, there is the question of just what does one consider "mini"? AOS standards regard "mini" as a plant that will remain under 6" in height when mature (not counting flower spike). However, many vendors will bill anything under 9-12 inches tall as "mini". "Wingspan"/leaf span is never one of the determining factors for the "mini" appellation from what I have seen.

Truly mini growers (those under 6" when mature) are not going to be found at your supermarket or BBS. Period. Some orchids, such as phals, will start blooming at a relatively young age/small size. These are the "mini" orchids one typically sees at a BBS or supermarket.

Now with actual orchid vendors, I have found that it is wisest to ASK how large a plant will get upon maturity (height and leaf span). Do not assume that just because it is blooming in a small pot or listed in their "mini" section that it actually will be a true mini<6inches tall. (The same holds true should you ever get into terraria with more general types of plants. Many of the plants sold for use in terraria are NOT all that small upon upon maturity.) Andy's Orchids is one of the very few sites I know of which holds pretty reliably to the standard that mini means <6 inches.

Well either way, the orchids are growing great and flowers are nice.

I do need to remove them from the terrarium and pot them now. They are too big.

I guess I start a new post with some recomendations.

I thought I bought Minature Phals...

Phalaenopsis in my opinion do get large even if described as being a mini. As you have experienced, I have several mini Phals that are not as big as standard but they do take up a lot space. However there is a variety, bred in Japan, known as Sederia japonica, now renamed Phalenopsis japonica that are truly miniature.

I have a Sederia japonica called Min-maru that is no larger than three inches from leaf tip across to the next leap tip. It is very hard for me to grow--this is my fourth attempt to grow this variety. It might do well in a terrarium. They are not inexpensive. I bought this Sederia two months ago for US$34.79 on eBay from Seed Engei. They also have a website where they sell directly to you. They do not have Sederia japonica in stock for sale on the website. If you launch their website you will see Neofinetia falcata plants, these are miniature Vanda. They also sell Dendrobium moniliforme--miniature Dendrobium.

There is another vendor specializing in Japanese provenance orchids: New World Orchids. They sell Neofinetia falcata, Sederia japonica, Dendrobium moniliforme. They also sell Sophronitis Cattleya orchids from Brasil via Japan. These are miniature Cattleya.

If you want to expand your experience with other kinds of miniature orchids besides Phalaenopsis, I would start your journey by going to these two websites.

Seed Engei: http://www.seed-engei.com
New World Orchids: https://newworldorchids.com

I think that 'mini' refers to the size of the flowers. As these phals age, the flower spikes/sprays get bigger, with branches and lots of blooms, but each flower stays small (by comparison with regular phals). The plants themselves, however, grow much bigger. The leaves tend to be narrow and long.

If you'd like to purchase real mini phals, I can recommend you Phal lobbii or thailandica.
These are species, but your terrarium could be good place for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattWoelfsen (Post 676727)

I have a Sederia japonica called Min-maru that is no larger than three inches from leaf tip across to the next leap tip.

There are Sederia to be had for far cheaper, should the OP be interested in those. Usually normal forms of Sederia japonica go for around $15. While not as small as the form Matt has, they still stay relatively small compared to most phals and might be good to "cut your teeth on".

Phal Lovely Kid stays very small -- hardly surprising as both of the parents Phal. parishii x Phal lobbii are true minis themselves. Zuma Canyon has created a number of very small mini phals. One that I own is Phal Zuma Pixie which has a tip-to-tip leaf span about about 2-3inches ... and this is a plant that is well over 7yrs old.

Then there are quite a few truly mini (often refered to as "micro-mini") orchids available these days. Most are species and none will be available in a BBS.

What's the culture like for Sederia Japonica? I'm in the process of setting up a terrarium for growing dracula species and am wondering if it would do well in similar conditions and light.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomGemini (Post 677158)

What's the culture like for Sederia Japonica? I'm in the process of setting up a terrarium for growing dracula species and am wondering if it would do well in similar conditions and light.

Mine does very well with the same care as a Phal. It does, however, seem to like more light than my Phals.