cornu cervi chattaladae 4N refusing to bloom
 

Hello,

I've been growing this CC for close to 1 year now. I got it as a blooming size plant. It kinda stalled for a few months but has been growing steadily since February 17. The plant is clearly healthy, many nice roots and leaves. Everything I grow has bloomed at least once since that time, but this guy refuses to bloom! It's growing leaves and roots non-stop, it hasn't dropped a single leaf since I have it.

I've read they need higher light, which it is getting. I also read that it likes a dry spell in the winter? I have a really hard time with keeping my orchids dry, hence why almost everything I grow is mounted... My amabilis which is another Phal that needs a bit more light then the others is in spike now while getting less light then the CC.

Everyone here seems to be getting these plants to bloom... What am I doing wrong?

Can't help you with your non bloomer - but got to say that's a really nice display.

I don't have this orchid, but do have a few Phals with high light requirements.

What sort of light is higher light? Orchidwiz says 1200-1500fc, but that they reportedly produce more blooms when light is high enough to turn leaves yellowish. In habitat, winter is the brightest season (1500-1800fc). They also add that winter is the driest season, with most water coming from dew, and humidity is around 60%, so they advise restricted watering: occasional early morning mistings between infrequent light waterings. Does not say if this is required for blooming. It also says that this plant should be in near continuous bloom!

I'm in the Netherlands, so at a latitude similar to southern Canada. Nearly all my Phals live on shelving in front of a south facing window, and are in full sun from mid-late morning to late afternoon. In the summer the sun is so high that there is little direct sun at the hottest hours of the day.

Cornu-cervi is a prolific plant when it's happy. Now, there is always the possibility that yours is simply a dud, but let's presume that's not the case. Judging by your photos I would say that the leaves are on the darker green side, and with cornu-cervi that's a clear indication that the light level is still a bit low. This species certainly likes a higher level than most Phals, though mine have produced well with less light. Your roots look healthy so I doubt there's a watering problem. Finally, cornu-cervi can get to a really, really slow, near-dormant, phase in the winter, more so than any other Phal I've experienced (which is most of them). However, I've never reduced watering in the winter and that's not been a problem - in about 40 years with the species.

I'm guessing that a bit more light could trigger the plant - and don't worry if the leaves get more pale due to the light, only worry if they begin to redden.

It used to get about 1500 FC, but I recently relocated to provide more light. It''s now getting about 2000 FC. Unfortunately, I've been told light meters can't be relied on whem using LED lights..

It's right next to my P amabilis but a few inches closer to the lights.. I think amabilis and cc have similar light requierements? My amabilis is currently pushing out a fat spike, sure looks happy!

I think the color balance of my photo is not great due to the artificial lighting and also because it has a lot of black pigmentation which seems to alter the color around. In real life they look pale green to my eye. I've seen other cc in bloom grown in a local greenhouses and mine is definitely paler then theirs... Maybe mine is a dud!

I tried to take another photo to show the leaf color...

On a side note, I was wondering if the light levels have any impact on the black pigmentation. I've been told the more it's pigmented, the darker the flowers will be, but have a feeling that's more of a reaction to light levels?

In that picture, the color looks more like mine (I have about a dozen cornus). It's possible that the light level, then, is OK. Give the plant a year, and if it doesn't bloom within that time then you may have a dud, yes, though I really doubt it.

As an aside, in my experience cornu-cervi can tolerate more light than can amabilis.

4 shilleriana, 12 cornu cervi... You have a greenhouse or you do this at home? I so don't have the space for duplicates lol

It used to get the same light level as my amabilis variegated, but I recently decided to give it much more light as anyway I don't think I could burn this plant under lights...

So let me ask you, the blooming season is irregular for you or always around the same period? Does it benefit from cold nights? Dry spell in winter? Anything special you do to initiate blooming?

Since mine is mounted, it dries quickly and gets daily waterings with very low but constant fertilizing...which is the same treatment everyone gets except a few exceptions such as my few (2) Dracula's.

If it's a 4N... was it treated with colchicine, or is it a cross between two 4N parents? Colchicine can produce all sorts of undesirable mutations, including making plants sterile.

That said, you can get some amazing things with colchicine, so I would hang onto it until it's a lot bigger before getting rid of it. I don't know how big this plant needs to be before it blooms.

I'm not aware if it was treated or not, but it comes from a reputable breeder and friend that produces great plants... I'll ask him. I just read an article on this, I'm not sure how I feel about it!

It's definitely way bigger then needed to bloom. I've seen plants a quarter of that size with flowers..

Mine get nowhere near those kind of lights but still blooms reliably.

On the other hand, my tetrapsis hasn't done anything since it's first bloom shortly after arriving a few years ago, only maintains its status quo. Yours (speciosa perhaps?) is lovely.

I'm thinking about temps. Aside from heatwaves in the Summer, I probably keep my tetrapsis (and a couple of hybrids) too cool. My Cornu and hiero seem to enjoy the cooler conditions (low 60s-high 70s °f, mid 80's heatwaves).

Some are on my kitchen windowsill, the rest under lights. I have a large number of equestri as well.

In my experience, cornu-cervi goes almost dormant in the winter, and usually start budding in May or June. As a Spring bloomer I'm sure the plant is effected somewhat by cooler nights through the Winter but I don't ever give mine a dry spell - those I have mounted are watered 1-2 times each day while those in post are watered as soon as they dry. I do absolutely nothing to initiate blooming, and, frankly, think that the "cool spell" theory for Phals is nonsense. Phals bloom when they darn well feel like it. If you're hitting it every day with even a mild amount of fertilizer then I'd suggest using water at least 5 of the 7 days of the week, and don't be at all shy about how much you use. A mounted plant can't be overwatered.

And, by the way, depending upon the type of light you use, you can indeed give Phals too much light. I use T5s, and they could easily burn a cornu-cervi to ashes.

Thanks for your input! If anyone else has success with lower temps with cc I might give it a try if the recent light increase doesn't trigger anything.. I'm hoping that by the time this new leaf is fully grown maybe I'll get a spike!

As for your tetrapsis/speciosa... Mine grows like weeds! As of now it matures a new leaf every more or less 2 months and every time pushes a new spike while sending flowers on older ones. It gets summer temps H25-32C/L20-25, somewhat hight light (i grow under lights), enough to show veins and turn slightly paler green, humidity around 50-85%, is mounted on cork with a fair amount of spagnum moss, enough to keep it moist for a day or 2 max. Winter it gets H22-25/L20 with lower humidity, 40-60% and still keeps the same growth habits, maybe a dash slower. Hope that can help you.

---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

Completely agree with you on the cold nights... I believe once they matured about 3 leaves... They re normally ready to set their spike.. I never gave cold nights to initiate bloom, and everything always blooms (except this cc).

I'll look forward to seeing a spike next spring! Thanks for your feedback.

I use LEDs, Ikea Vaxer e26 10W.. I strongly recommend them, so far getting amazing results specially considering the price point! I could perhaps burn them, but I'd need to be stupid to do so, I think anything under 6 inches should always be safe! Anyway you need to pay attention and listen to the plant, it will show signs if not happy!

I think the cooling nights period is for the amabilis, schilleriana, stuartiana type hybrids, not the warm-growing ones.

In my experience, my amabilis, stuartiana Nobilis, schilleriana all set their spikes this year in the hottest September month we've had in years... I'm talking days over 30C and nights rarely below 27C. But every plant reacts differently in different conditions and it's a known fact that some plants react to changes in light or temps by initiating blooming, going dormant, etc. There's definitely nothing crazy about that, but I feel people put too much attention on these things when in reality it might not be needed. Last time I tried to initiate blooming on a stoburn equestris by giving it a few weeks of cold nights (windowsill in freezing outdoor weather, temp was probably 15C), I badly damaged a few leaves and it did not bloom, all it did is slowed down its growth... It did bloom however a few months later when it was ready!

Sometimes stressing a plant will make it bloom as a survival mechanism... But to what cost?

---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

I also remember reading on ranwild.org that bellinas need nights cooler then 20C for a few weeks to bloom. And that temps above 25 will discourage it. I never tried to provide this, yet every year it spikes about the same time.

We need to keep in mind that often this data is provided based on plants in their natural habitat, which is not the case for most of us.. they adapt in most cases to our conditions and trying to provide what they'd get in nature might not help them if they come from a flask! Just my 2 cents and personal observations.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------

Sorry getting side tracked here lol.. thanks everyone for your input, I think I know what my cc needs... Which is nothing but my patience lol.. when this happens I just get more plants to keep me busy and stop thinking about this nonbloomer

Happy growing :)

Well well, this guy is not a dub afterall... After a massive root explosion causing false hope of a spike every other day in the past weeks, I finally have a spike emerging! Not sure if I can attribute it to the slight increase in light, but it's definitely tolerating it and I now can look forward to seeing this guy in bloom in maybe 2 months, if the spike doesn't stall halfway...

3 long months later... 2 spikes, one open flower and more to come! It's got a nice added bonus, I can detect fragrance already, the flower just opened overnight.

https://s14.postimg.org/ie3jf1i0h/20180223_093718.jpg

https://s14.postimg.org/vi93rzpkh/20180223_093336.jpg

https://s14.postimg.org/xmtgt6edd/20180223_093753.jpg