Experts Lead The Way!
 

Well, if you didn't read my "introducing me" thread, I'm an avid herp keeper, and my favorites are dart frogs. I'm setting forth in planning my next vivarium, and unlike my others will be "themed."

I've started creating a plant list for plants that 1 will do well in the humid conditions of a dart frog viv, 2 fit the size requirements, 3 fit into my theme. I will throw in some pictures of what I'm going w/ so far, should help w/ your replies.

The size of the vivarium will be either 18"w x18"d x24"h, or 48"w x 18"d x 20"h. Because of the need for a false bottom the "floor" would be 3-4" from the bottom of the tank... Of course like all of my other dart frog vivs it will include a water feature, just love em :)

SO here comes the part where I hope some of you can help me. I recently got my first two orchids (for a dart frog viv) and am now addicted. I have a couple of orchids in mind, but found little information on care/size of them. After looking at my pictures, I'm sure you'll see the theme I'm going for with this vivarium. PLEASE throw your suggestions at me for orchids that will work in the set-up, and fit with the theme, and of course any other plant ideas are welcome :) THANK YOU SOOOO
MUCH

the future in habitants: Red D. galactonotus
http://www.saurian.net/images05/spec...onotus_red.jpg

some of the plants that I know I want:

begonia black flag
http://www.violetbarn.com/begblackfancy.jpg

Selaginella erythropus (a spiked moss)
http://www.blackjungle.com/Merchant2/s-e.jpg

Alocasia 'Black Velvet'
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/customecos/blackvelvet.jpg

Cryptanthus Black Mystic
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/custome...tblkmystic.jpg

Couple Orchids I was thinking of using but not sure if they work or their care or their size??? lol

Dracula Vampira
http://www.hoosierorchid.com/images/products/b2.jpg
Dracula amalie
http://www.andysorchids.com/images/Species/5075med.jpg

THROW IT AT ME LOL THANK YOU ALL!!!!!!!

The Dracs should do just fine. They need medium light (maybe 600-800 foot-candles) cool temps (like low 60s night and low 70s day) and can tolerate a wide variety of care. To bloom them, you'll need (in most cases) cooler temps than you probably want to keep in a vivarium. Hope this helps. BTW, I have Dracula lotax in my orchidarium under 99% humidity and low 70s day and about 900 foot-candles light. It has been blooming off-and-on all winter. http://www.orchidboard.com/community...a_lotax_03.jpg http://www.orchidboard.com/community...a_lotax_04.jpg

Thanks for the replies. These are great informational threads, and the more I learn now, the less they suffer then. Thats unfortunate about the Dracula lol :(

I really like the leaves of the Haemaria/Ludisia discolor though w/ the orchids I'm looking more at the appearance of the flower than the leaves.

Another orchid that caught my eye was the Bulbophyllum masdevalliaceum it has some of the same "evil" characteristics that I'm looking for.
http://www.andysorchids.com/Images/Species/6227sml.jpg

as for the size both the begoinia and Alocasia 'Black Velvet' do get big, but I have seen other dart frog vivs w/ them, and kept well.

Paul, I grow and bloom Dracula lotax (a rather small Drac) in a orchidarium in my basement. As I said above it flowers faithfully for me. You can do it too, if you choose. Of course the temps are too warm for flowering in summer, even in basement, but it grows fine and then when things cool down in winter it goes to town. Just a thought.

Temps in the viv will be 75-78 during day, 70-73 night.... humidity 79-90% BUT will have good air flow, and easily put in a spot w/ great drainage. < if that helps w/ suggestions. :/

Just a random thought :dumb:
Don't you have to be careful what plants to mix with your frogs? :hmm Won't frogs eat the blooms of some orchids? Are there some orchids to avoid all together as they may be toxic to the frogs? Again ... just :dumb:thoughts

Very great thoughts, and i think the most harm a dart frog would do to an orchid (being that they eat ffs and springtails) would be if the orchid was in a place they would trample (again this depends on the frog as some are only 1/2-3/4" in length)... So placement of the orchid is included in the design of the vivarium to suit the frogs and plants. I've seen dozens of vivs where orchid and frogs live in peace :)

I have yet to hear of a frog dieing due to a toxic orchid, but they may exist, and thats another reason I'm researching before jumping in and buying whatever looks cool :)

Did you collect most of that here in Panama'? There are red frogs and jewel frogs all over a friend's finca as well as most of your plants!

With the exception of the spike moss I currently have none of the above pictured plants/frogs. Currently my collection includes:
dart frogs- d.Azureus, d.Tinctorius, D.Imitator, D.Leucomelas,
plants worth mentioning- begonia sp?, Selaginella erythropus, creeping fig, pumila, and pilea sp?
orchids-Haraella Retrocalla, Dendrobium "Iki" (a lot of other common plants/bromileads, and many other reptiles/amphibians....

I also think the alocasia and begonia will grow too big, try to find compact-growing plants, I can't think of any at the moment...

Thanks for the replies, I'm neck deep in research, and I'll be sure to ask some of the frog keeping plant gurus about their begonias...

Still having a difficult time on determining orchids for the viv, I'll be going through a list of recommendations today, hopefully I'll get some more recommendations here as well.

Thanks again

Thank you for moving this to the appropriate section, still getting used to the site :) I have a couple of orchids that I think may work (and fit into my theme) Let me know if anybody has any further detail on them :/

Scaphosepalum Breve
http://www.andysorchids.com/images/Species/5227med.jpg

Masdevallia Zahlbrudeneri
http://www.andysorchids.com/images/Species/5091med.jpg

Tristella species?
http://www.jlorchids.com/assets/imag...p_Peru_lrg.jpg

Restrepia Brachypus
http://www.andysorchids.com/images/Species/5496med.jpg

I really like the dark bold colors of some of them, red, black, I also like the "spikes" off the tips of the petals.

Any thoughts/comments on the above orchids?

Masdevallia zahlbrudeneri is a warm grower and I think? lower light so should be good. The Scaphs are all very neat. Your temp range should be okay for most of them including Scaph breve. Have you checked out Scaph erinaceum/Masdevallia erinacea? IOSPE PHOTOS

(Btw, not to be a pain or anything, just an FYI ... the species name is never capitalized.);)

Thanks for the info :) Its one on the list.

I'm having a hard time finding any pictures or info on the Scaphosepalum Erinaceu??

Do you mean Masdevallia erinacea
Click on these links - http://www.orchidspecies.com/orphotd...alerinacea.jpg
- IOSPE PHOTOS
Check out this link- it lists many species of Scaphosepalum - Scaphosepalum - and if you click on the names, the photos will show up :)

Awesome! Thanks, yeah, those would fit in nicely.

Well I'm having a difficult time finding information for a few of the orchids I'm looking at, but here is what I've come up w/ so far....

Bulbpohyllum masdevalliaceum- may get too tall for the viv.
http://www.andysorchids.com/Images/Species/6227sml.jpg

Scaphosepalum rapax- mini, cant dry out, daily waterings
http://www.andysorchids.com/images%5...%5C5221sml.jpg


Masdevallia Zahlbrudeneri- cork mounted, needs shade but can handle warm temps, stay moist.
http://www.andysorchids.com/images/Species/5091med.jpg

Tristella species? no info? just says its small and good for terrariums?
http://www.jlorchids.com/assets/imag...p_Peru_lrg.jpg


Restrepia brachypus- may get to tall for viv, and may not handle the temps in the viv, but likes the humidity?
http://www.andysorchids.com/images/Species/5496med.jpg

also looked at Pleurothallis cypripedioides but dont know if it would get too big...
http://www.andysorchids.com/Images/Species/6510sml.jpg

IF anyone has any information on these, or knows they just wont work in my vivarium ( 72-78F, 76-90% humidity 5500-7500k but can have shady places, plenty of air movement) please let me know.

If you want a resource of any orchid species - Use the IOSPE Internet Orchid Species Photo Encyclopedia - Internet Orchid Species Photo Encyclopedia - it will give you it's culture , growth size etc .. :)

thanks! that helped a ton.
didn't find the Bulbophyllum, but looks like the Scaphosepulum Rapax will work well, the Masdevallia will work well. Couldn't find the Tristella, and the Restrepia Guttulata looks like it needs cooler temps.

Thanks for the site, it'll help me out in my research a lot :)

Restrepia brachypus will never get too tall for a viv... It just doesn't grow that way. Probably the best orchid for a viv, I've found.

cool, thanks for the reply, wasn't expecting to hear from you tell monday :) thanks again.

You are very welcome, Aaron ;)

When I was considering setting up a vivarium specifically for dart frogs, I too went on a search for orchids that would co-habitate well with them. I found this list:

Orchids Listing for Dart Frog Vivarium 80+Degrees & Very Humid

Pleurothallis grobyi
Ludisia discolor
Malaxis species N. G.
Malaxis species Thailand
Masdevallia wendlandiana
Maxillaria uncata
Bulbophyllum alagense both forms
Pleurothallis tribulariodes
Haraella odorata
Vanilla planifolia
Trichoglottis triflora
Cirrhopetalum curtsii
Dendrobium abberans
Nephelaphyllum all species
Masdevallia floribunda
Dendrobium atroviolaceum "pigmy type"
Pleurothallis allanii

All of these were suggested by Harry @ Andy's Orchids and I have purchased several of them....here's the link to the thread, maybe some of these will fit with your theme...happy hunting!

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...errariums.html

Thanks for the reply. I have looked over that thread a couple of times in the last two days, and its deffinitly helped me in my search for other orchids that meet the size requirements, and climate ability. As for finding ones that meet the theme I am going for that has caused the most head ache. Lol, this will be my first, and last themed vivarium.

Hi Aaron! I'm not much as advisor but more like watching and admireing your project.:drool: I get good info for my vivarium planning reading all this. Keep on going people, give him hints and I'll spy here :biggrin:

Beautiful frogs! Is it so that they get their poison by eating some insects etc. and with normal frog food they loose that ability? I've heard this from somewhere and just asking confirmation.

Thats correct. In the frogs natural habitat there are ants or beetles that eat a poisonous plant, the frogs then eat the insects and the poison is excreted through their skin. In the wild there are only 5 or so species of poison dart frogs that could kill a human, but many would make a person sick.

When in captivity, we feed them a staple diet of flightless fruit flies, spring tails, and other isotopes. All of which have no poison to transfer to the frogs. Again, there are many reason to wash your hands before and after holding any of the frogs, most of those reasons are to prevent injures to the frogs, and transfer of fungus/chemicals/anything else that may be on your hands to the frogs. Due to the stress to a frog caused by holding it, and all the risks, most keepers dont hold a frog unless its an emergency.

Thanks for your comments, and when I start construction I'll be sure to post more information.

I would LOVE to have a dart frog vivarium and do really love the plants you've selected.

I've got the Masd erinacea. . .it's great!!!! and will do very well in your viv.

Thanks for the reply... Here is a link to my last Dart Frog viv... Pictures towards the bottom of the page are more recent, and you can see the orchids that I have in that viv....

http://www.dendroboard.com/member-s-...opic37060.html

Aaron - your tank is awesome :):Tup:
I love your frogs :nod:

Well I began construction of this vivarium yesterday, I'll start up a construction thread here shortly :)

Aaron, great project. since a couple of weeks I am also playing with the idea of a vivarium... but maybe in the future ;) I used to have Dendrobates leucocmelas (as well as different Boas) in Venezuela.

What exactly do you mean with "...and other isotopes."? :shock:

Isotope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :evil:

I may have gotten my words mixed up lol... Springtials/FruitFlies, and other common non-toxic insects.?...

I am really enjoying your thread!

I was wondering about what you meant when you said the frogs ate ff's! LOL

Everything is coming along soooo nicely. I would love to care for a frog pair! Maybe someday soon!

P.S. Love that little fern with the blood red color under the leaves! Very cool!