Dying masdevallia measuresiana!
 

Hello! (Again, again, again...)

I've tried treating my masdevallia with a 1:3 alcohol/water solution to get rid of spots/issues with fungus. I've been spraying it on the leaves 2 times during one week. To keep it away from my other plants (I live in a quite small apartment), I've stored the plant in a closet. It's been in the closet for around five days. After two days in the closet I took it out to examine it after two days and one leaf dropped. Today I took it out after five days in the closet, and ALL leaves dropped except for one. The plant had about 8 leaves and now... one.

I don't know what has caused this. Perhaps it didn't like being in the closet even though I think five days isn't a long time. Maybe it didn't like the alcohol or maybe the spotting/fungus got to it.

Anyway! Do you think there's a chance of saving this little guy? I'm quite fond of this plant and would really like to save it. At the moment I'm not sure if there are any new growths on the way. There are roots, but not many (when I bought it, it had about 2-3 less than one inch roots). It's been a while since I took it out of the growing medium and I can see that it has not been enjoying it. The medium has been 100% sphag.

Here are some pictures of the poor fella:

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Right now the plant is without medium as shown in the pictures.

Thanks for reading! I really appreciate your help. :)

You may be able to salvage it. Now, I'm no Masdie expert, so I'm answering in general terms, so take that with a grain of salt. The plant looks to be utterly waterlogged. My suggestion would be to let it completely dry out before even considering a pot to put it in. Once dry, my inclination would be to put it in a closed area with a lot of humidity - a clear trash bag or something. Watch it in there, keep the air fresh and humid, and see if it starts to root, or sprout, or in any way show signs of life. As soon as it does, pot it.

Thanks for your reply! I do agree that it looks like it has been waaay too moist (even wet), for a very long time. Drying it out sounds like a good plan, and I can definitely try putting it in a plastic bag.

Would you suggest making holes in the bag or just opening the bag once a day? I have a rather small humidifier that I could but in the bag with it.

You could poke some holes in the bag, and probably it's a good idea. But if you do, stake the bag up somehow so it's not touching the plant; make a sort of tepee for it.

I will! Thanks!
If it loses its last leaf, can I consider it dead? Or does is still have a chance of making new growth?

What are your conditions?

All my previous Masdie leaf drops preceded death. Probably due to temperatures being too high. I have not grown this primary hybrid nor either of the parents. The parents are both cold/cool growers.

Spotting is the first indicator of too warm temperatures. Good air circulation is a must for most/all Masdies. I would try to keep the temps below 22° C, the media moist but not wet nor dry with high relative humidity.

Here are the links to IOSPE of the parents:
tovarensis
amabilis

A very light dose of Calcium might help (I use a Ca+Mg formula).

Well, the temperature is around 20 - 22 degrees here, so I don't think that's the issue. The spotting came when a dendrobium started spotting. I took the dendrobium away from the rest of the plants, but a couple of days later the masdevallia showed the same spots.
My conditions right now are nothing in particular, as I'm rebuilding my greenhouse. They have lights, but that's about it for the moment. Hopefully I will be done building pretty soon.
I've had the masdevallia for about a year. When I received it, it acted out (due to change of environment, I guess) and dropped a couple of leaves. After a week or so it stopped dropping leaves and has been happy and growing since.

Do you have any suggestions on how to keep it alive? Right now I'm keeping it in a small enclosure made of one plastic bag. The plastic bag doesn't cling to the plant and inside the enclosure is also a humidifier. The plant has no potting medium.

Thanks for your reply. :)

I hope you can turn it around - the few masdies I have had get to this point did not come back. I'm also no expert, but I have bought a lot of these guys in a very short time and struggled with pouters and die-ers.

I would worry that sticking it in the closet may have done this, unless you had lighting in there. Fungus really likes moist conditions with no air movement and no light.

I think what you are doing now will give it the best chance to come back. Make sure it's in a dim place (no direct sun), but still has a bit of light, like a northern window.

Finally, I have used alcohol a time or two on my masdies and they really seemed to resent it. I'm careful not to get it on them anymore - you may wish to avoid it as well. I am more in favor of simply removing sections of leaves or a whole leaf if I suspect infection.

Good luck!

Well... I am definitely not gonna try alcohol or closet treatment on any masdie anymore.
The closet had no lights. I think it's a combination of the alcohol and the closet that did this to the poor plant. I did remove leaves that had spots on them, but the problem was that all leaves had spots. Some had many, some only had a few tiny spots, but at the time it had basically spread to the entire plant. I cut off the most affected leaves and then did the alcohol treatment and stuck it in the closet, to keep it away from my collection.
It's kind of sad, though. This was my first masdie and it did good until the spots came.

Thanks for replying!

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ----------

Also, I have a dendrobium that I treated with alcohol, but didn't put in the closet and it's doing fine. I also have a ludisia that I did not treat with alcohol, but it's been in the closet for as long as the masdie. I guess masdies are just... difficult. :)

Not many epiphytic plants will survive sick and wet in complete darkness for 5 days. I would suggest you not try that again with any orchids.

Hold stop and re think.
Masd's are relatively cool growing and like both moisture and plenty of air movement with around 30 -40% shade. The spotted leaves I have found come and go be it frustrating the look. I have found a very mild fungicide or general purpose plant oil tends to spruce them up. What medium are you using I tend to use a very fine bark. Once you have re-potted apply with watering a weak solution of epsom salts (for two waterings) then stand back it should take off again. Good luck. This is a nice genera species when in flower.

No, that was probably a pretty bad idea. I just don't know how to keep new/sick plants separated from my collection in an effective way, since my apartment isn't very big.
How long do you suggest to keep new plants away from the rest of them? And how far away should they be?

---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

AJW: Thanks for the advice. I will try to find some plant oil and epsom salt and see what happens. It's been growing in sphag, which I think has been too wet for too long.

At the risk of upsetting someone: Some growers will swear by sphag. I prefer not to use it.
I think a lot depends on how you water your plants. If you are infrequent then sphag will hold moisture longer and your plants should not suffer too much but if you are a water every day type then I find that sphag turns to mush and plants suffer.

I don't like sphag that much either, but I received the plant in sphag and it seemed to be doing fine, so I let it be. If it ever recovers I think I will plant it in small bark and some sphag.
How long would you quarantine new plants? And how?

Sphag can be good for certain things. I like to use it for plants with no or very small roots. For some reason, in my conditions, I have a lot of luck using it for that purpose. Otherwise, I use it in most of my mixes. The ratio depends on what the plant likes as far as moisture goes. The higher the moisture requirement, the more sphag. I would also use less sphag if I had more time to water more... but, alas, I get busy. Nowadays, I have found personal success growing masdies in s/h. They get constant moisture and air to their roots - really the best of both worlds for them. The one caveat is that I have found they need to have an already established root system before going into S/H, otherwise they just kind of stagnate.

I have similar problems in regards to quarantine. I live in a pretty small apartment as well. A true quarantine is pretty much off the table. I take risks depending on the situation but would never recommend it and it is always directly related to the reputation and my personal experience with a particular vendor. Keep in mind that even the best vendors are not 100% pest free. I do thorough inspections upon receiving the plants. It will never be 100%, though, IMO even quarantining is not bullet proof (though it ups your chances).

Under an ideal situation, you would probably want to quarantine for a month with the plant or plants completely isolated from other established plants. If you can't do that, do the best you can. For short periods, the plants will likely be fine with less than ideal light (for instance, a cattleya spending two weeks in a north window would likely barely notice) . Get it as far away from your other plants and inspect it regularly for disease and pests at different times of day. With the caveat of plants that have very strict repotting times, I also like to dump the old media ASAP. A lot of pests live in it, so dumping it also dumps them.

That's my $.02 anyway :)

Thanks for replying - definitely helpful information!
Maybe I should look into s/h. I have not used it ever, but I definitely agree that masdies would enjoy it. This masdie is the only orchid I have that grows in sphag. I have one other where I've put a little sphag on top of bark, to keep the roots in the air more moist for longer. I think my masdie could definitely have been more happy with a medium that dries out a bit faster.

When it comes to quarantine I've thought about maybe trying to "treat" all new plants instead of putting them in closets and placing them as far away as possible. When I say "treat" I'm thinking of submerging the pot in water and then coating the leaves and soil with diatomaceous earth. I just bought it and have no experience with it, but I've done this treatment to all my plants, since it should be completely harmless. Changing the medium as soon as possible would definitely be great, too. It's just pretty often that the plants are in bloom and I'm trying not to repot then.
As mentioned I have a very little apartment and to be honest I don't think storing it in a different room will make a difference, since there are literally no doors in my apartment. This is why I stuck it in the closet, which I will not be doing anymore.
I don't know how I'm gonna find out, but I hope diatomaceous earth will do the trick.

---------- Post added at 02:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 AM ----------

Oh, and I can now inform you that the masdie has died. The last leaf has dropped. It really did act quite strange. I did as you said and put it in its own little plastic bag with holes and a humidifier. I kept it evenly moist, but even so it seemed totally dried out and basically dead. Poor plant. A part of me wants to get a new one since I liked it a lot, but another part of me is also pretty discouraged.

With most orchids, it is a good idea to learn on easier-to-grow hybrids, rather than species. Hybrids are generally more vigorous and tolerant of growing errors than are species. I'm sure people here can offer suggestions of Masdevallia hybrids that do well in northern European windows.

Yes, I guess I should've gone with a hybrid. I just really liked this one.
How do I know if it's a hybrid? Is it always a hybrid when the label says 'name x name'? I've found places where it only had one "name", for example: masdevallia veitchiana, but then it's stated elsewhere that it is a hybrid. Kind of confusing.

Masdevallia veitchiana is a species. However, it seems to make nice, warmth tolerant and vigorous hybrids.

Generally, you can tell if a Masdie is a hybrid a couple different ways. The first is that the vendor will usually tell you it's a hybrid. The second is if the title after the genus (Masdevallia) is really obvious. For instance, I have a Masdevallia Flying Colors - since the "Flying Colors" is quite clearly not a scientific name, it's pretty safe to assume that it is a hybrid. Often, also, you will see that X you mentioned, which is another good indicator. The only time this really falls apart is if the hybrid names sounds scientific, though I haven't really run into this in Masdies. Finally, simply google the name - usually you can find info about the plant using this method (what parents the hybrid has or if it's a species).

A final note, species (all over, not just orchids) are described in a standardized way. The genus is always led with a capital letter, while the species epithet is always completely lower case. I.e, the veitchiana example: Masdevallia veitchiana. If it was a hybrid, it would be Masdevallia Veitchiana. Providing that the vendor and labeler know this, it will also tell you something about the plant, though I find this the least reliable since many, many people outside of biological fields do not know this.

Years ago, a species name derived from a person's name was capitalized, as well as hybrid names, so it was confusing.

When the species we now write as Masdevallia veitchiana was described, it would have been written Masdevallia Veitchiana. If you read old issues of British botanical journals you will see it written that way.

That practice changed, and species names are now always written with a lower case initial letter. Older publications used the old system. Many Internet sites copied their text verbatim from older publications. Be careful while reading.

Ah, interesting. Thanks for all the information! Guess I will be looking for a new masdie hybrid then. :)

As I stated earlier, Measursiana IS a primary hybrid (amabilis x tovarensis). Google it. Google is your friend.

Yes, I did google that. :) But it has died, so now I will be looking for a new.

I think, whether it is a hybrid or species, an orchid will thrive when given the right conditions. Success with any plant really just depends on what conditions a plant needs and if those conditions can be met. To discover what conditions an orchid needs, a little research or a helpful conversation with an orchid expert/vendor can be very helpful.

Last year, I bought a Masdevallia nicaraguae as my research showed it should easily grow in my conditions with the help of a fishbowl. I haven't convinced it to bloom but it has been doing well otherwise. If I can get it to bloom, I am going to get another Masdevallia. :)