Cattleyas for cool climates
 

I wonder if there are catts that could be grown outside with the conditions bellow. I believe the most critical is the winter.

My climate is:

Summer - upper 90's (35º C day) + 70's (20º C night) and HR 25% max

Winter - low 50's (12º C day) + low 40's (4º C night) and HR 80% min

Plenty of sun most of the year.

These are average readings, it can go to extremes.

Thank you

Does size matter?

If not, some Sophronitis might do well. These are the more available (at least in the US).

brevipedunculata
coccinea
wittigiana


I'm sure there are many others in the alliance.

(This group is currently in the taxonomists sights so I don't know which have made the switch to Cattleya)

In addition to Sophronitis, I've read that some bifolate Brazilian Catts are cool-tolerant. I would be cautious with pushing the lower temperature limits though.

Not really. They are supposed to grow outdoors.

There's something I can't control. Hence my question.

I can get a Sophronitis brevipedunculata for 15,00 € at my usual garden.

Found a link here.

It seems the cool tolerant species can't stand high temperatures. Plus, they're not easy to find here.

yeah, sophronitis are great outdoors but not in heat... although any of the hybrids several generations in can handle heat much better...

tried and try would be:

intermedia
loddigesii
walkeriana (even though it prefers warm)

laelia anceps
l. gouldiana
l. autumnalis

or any hybrids with above in parentage can manage cold...

I can see my winter lower temps are not compatible with catts.
But I think the Laelias could thrive here but I have some doubts because in winter max temps are usually always bellow 14º C (57 F).

These are the ones I can get easily:

Laelia alavrenguensis
Laelia bahiensis
Laelia bradei
Laelia cinnabarina
Laelia crispilabia
Laelia dayana
Laelia jongheana
Laelia lundii
Laelia macrobulbosa
Laelia milleri x sophronitis acuensis
Laelia purpurata semi alba x gracicata
Laelia purpurata werkauseri 'Equilab' x Self
Laelia rupestris
Laelia schmidtii
Laelia tenebrosa var. Rubra 'Caliman'

:twocents:

I own several cymbs and they all grow outdoors.
But I want to try catts outdoors since I'm running out of space.:(

The catts I mentioned can handle low temps, i can vouch for that myself... gets that cold or colder in my area.

Those you named are all good down to 14 degrees, absolutely not a problem... more when you get down to 4 degrees (40's F)... you just want to keep them dry side and protected (from winds and rain)and actually they should handle that well...

purpurata, tenebrosa, lundii, bahiensis, milleri hybrid, I know for sure can handle down lower than 4 degrees... dayana was a bit iffy for me around 4... and jongheana, bradei, cinnabarina, I've heard actually do better with some warmth in winter as well... overall the brazillian laelias from minas gerias are temp tolerant, but do better with some warmth in winter around 10 degrees C (50's F).

The coldest growing laelias are mexican laelias... as i noted in last post...

Some of the most cold tolerant Cattleya alliance hybrids come from Laelia anceps and a couple of the other true Laelias with standard Catts of many types. These are used for outdoor growing in cool but (mostly) frost free parts of southern and coastal California.

There is also some breeding with a small very cold tolerant species called Epidendrum magnoliae from the southern US and Mexico. Most of these are smallish plants with Epidendrum form, but there is breeding with full size Catts that may be of interest.

But there's one thing I've noticed...they can handle low temps but here, in winter, it doesn't get much warmer during the day. They all seem to tolerate low temps but need higher values (>59 F / 15º C) during the day.
In January and February it's frequent to have a max of 50 F (10º C) during complete weeks.

Mexican Laelias can have temperatures like that in the winter. If you can find them, try some.

And I think Cattleya (Laelia) pupurata is also worth a try, based on what I've been told.

I know it isn't a Cattleya, but it sounds like you're environment would be great for growing some Masdevallia out there.

From what I've seen, Laelia bahiensis is the most suitable for me. A south balcony, protected from the north cold winter winds and plenty of direct sun.
And this one I can get for 19 €...

Well, I think I can't, although I'd love to. Summers here are hot and dry, even indoors.

My northern California climate is similar to yours except I get more cloudy foggy days.
I grow Laelia hybrids, C. amethystoglossa, Encyclia tampensis, Barkeria spectabilis an several C. Noids in a greenhouse that is kept above freezing. The temps are usually around 60 - 70 on a sunny winter day.
Do you have a way to cover your growing area with something that will let the sunlight through and heat it up during the day?
I have my Cymbidiums on a southfacing protected porch.

Maureen

My idea is to put the plant, at least during the cold days, in a southern balcony. The only protection is against the northern winds. So it has to be one that can stand lower temps of 40 F and max around low 50's (winter temps) as well as direct sun.

Mine are on a northfacing balcony, no protections. They do fine.

You might try hybrids of Encyclia (Epidendrum) tampensis like this one:
Epicattleya El Hatillo 'Nina' at Santa Barbara Orchid Estate

The best plant for that condition is Laelia anceps... they can tolerate wide ranges of temperatures and good sun... they even survive a quick snow! There are so many colour varieties as well... and grow quickly to make magnificent displays!


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Anceps, autumnalis and bahiensis are the best options. I can get a bahiensis but their flowers are smaller. I think I'll wait and try to find some of the other.
I'm planning a visit to an international orchid show in Lisboa. Probably there I can find some specimens.

In the meawhile, here's a link with useful information about Laelias.

This one is a "jewel", a document with detailed info about each of the mexican Laelias... to those who are interested.

Laelias of Mexico - Herbario AMO

Is your winter cool and dry or cool and moist? If cool and dry, many of the Laeliae and Cattleyae are options; if cool and moist, many are not.


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I would think Cattleya mossiae would do well for you.

The coldest months, between Jan and Mar, are usually dry. Between Oct and Dec and Mar/Apr it's rainy, especially in Apr.

Update on this one... got my self a Laelia anceps.
Waiting for it to arrive.

Based on several talks I've heard, you should try Cattleya intermedia and Cattleya loddigesii, as mentioned above.

I can't find them here, at least until now.
Do you think the anceps was a not so good choice to grow outside?

I think Laelia anceps is a good choice to try.

Wish you all of the luck in the world. But I'm sceptical. I killed my anceps outside. With our winters (canary islands) it needs to be bone dry in winter or it rots. And as you have already written, these plants can handle low tº as long as the day tº go up and sunny. Two weeks dull, humid, cold weather not above 10º is not a good thing. Winters in, summers out.
Keep fingers crossed, though.

I can see my problem aren't temps but the rainy season. My rainy season happens when it's more or less cold, not in the coldest time of the year but not the warmer either.
In the meanwhile I already received the plant... Pwhile.will follow in a while.

Some photos of the plant... I believe it's in good condition, it seems it has been treated well.
For now I'll put it in a large south window with translucid white blinders, in a room without any night heating.

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...pstd2on2sh.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psngvqxdus.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6jzikpw1.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psn8zuimgi.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psjvva2tt6.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...pstqj8wfjl.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...pspyowkp2y.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...pslpwgmorq.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...pszfczkzmk.jpg

A very nice and compact plant. Mine had ugly long internodes ...

I think now it's the time to start new growths, right?
It will be a good indicator of its adaptation to the new environment.
From what I've been reading it might not resist my winter outside due to:

- Max temps are low (12 ºC - 53 F avg)
- Rainy season coincides with low temps

Two solutions:

Built a small greehouse to protect from the rain (and keep monitoring to see if it adapts to these temps).

Put it inside during the rainy season.

Do you have a balcony or something with a roof, where it could stay outside without getting wet.

Not really but I can protect it with some kind of plastic or build a greenhouse.

I compared Canary Islands climate with mine and you have much higher temps in winter.

The temperature is not too low. People grow them outside on trees in southern California with a similar temperature range to yours, and cold winter rain any time between October and April.

In habitat it is true they receive no rain in winter. If mounted you could move it under a cover during a winter rainy spell, then move it back when the weather dries.

About a year ago Roberta mentioned they only produce roots once a year, so it is best to wait to move them until new roots are just forming.

The best to initiate its acclimatization to lower temps is to put it outside as soon as possible, after root growth.
It might start soon 'cause now we are having day temps around 59~68 F (15~20 ºC).
See here.

This is true for the coastal towns; in the mountains the tº are much colder.

estación seca mentioned they only produce roots once a year - that's right! So every lost root is a little debacle. Be very careful with them!

I've often wondered why things that are possible in California don't work here - there must be a part of weather we do overlook.

Could it be humidity? Most of Canary Islands have a semi-arid / desert climate.

That is strange. Canarian plants do extremely well in coastal California, all the way north.

Of course, and I would like to grow a blue Ceanothus here if only I could get one!

But you can not compare bushes (echium) or hapaxantic growth forms with epiphytes like orchids.
Our bushes are summer - heat - dormant and re-green with the first rain. These bushes don't mind if the summer stays wet, as long as there is dry air, sun and good ventilation. They thrive well in continuous wet and fresh conditions, like in our mountains in winter, when there is every day clouds, and fog, and rain (horizontal rain, mostly = condensed fog on the branches and leaves).
Orchids from semiarid regions need a dry and cold rest and rising humidity makes roots appear - than begins the rainy season - and the warmth.
I'm now trying to grow Dendrobium speciosum outside. But if you compare the rainfall pattern from Brisbane with ours - both more or less 28º latitude -, you'll notice that the rainy month are the warm months, there too.