Virus. My heart just sank. What do I do???
 

So, I noticed yellow spots on the leaf of my Dendrobium antennatum orchid just yesterday. I thought it was odd, and today when I looked at the leaf again, I am seeing telltale rings in the plant's leaves.
I am pretty sure this is a ringspot virus. The rings are difficult to see right now, but they are there. I enhanced my photos so that the contrast is stronger so you can see them, too.

I have included a picture, but basically I am freaking out right now because I am scared that I now have no idea which other orchids are infected in my collection. Did the virus originate in the antennatum? Did it catch it from another plant? How easily will it spread? How likely is it that the other orchids I have will have caught this?

http://i60.tinypic.com/o89hf8.png

I haven't used cutting tools on this orchid, and I usually use totally different water for each plant, so hopefully the virus hasn't spread too badly but oh my god. What do I do?

I know that you can go get leaves tested, but to test all 50 of my plants seems cost-prohibitive to me as I am just a college student.

So shit. What do I do?

(p.s. I am seeking helpful advice. Lecturing me is unhelpful. Please do not give any "told you so" or "well obviously you should never XYZ" statements because I am already feeling very upset and scared for my plants.)

I would contact the vendor, nicely explain your situation, and if you play your cards right, as if you are letting the vendor know just in case he/she might have other infected plants (which is a nice gesture, anyway), they might generously offer you a replacement. Some vendors buy orchids from other vendors and they will want to know if they aren't getting healthy plants.
As for testing, as you are a University student, you might want to see if your University has an agricultural department. Some of them will test plants (usually corn, tomatoes, etc. in this area) so that they might study the diseases. It helps if you know someone.

One way, surprisingly, that plants can become infected is through virus-infected tobacco products. Someone who uses tobacco can touch the plants at a vendor's greenhouse, in the store, anywhere, and if they damage the leaf while touching it, they can provide an entry point for virus.

Sorry that you need to stress about this. Surprisingly, plant virus isn't that easy to spread. Plants have initial defenses against the virus that do often work. There also needs to be an entry point (broken 'skin'). However, if the leaves were touching leaves of other plants, you might want to keep those plants separate for a while for observation.

---------- Post added at 04:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

Just a few other notes...if the leaf is naturally dying, it might not be a virus
Sometimes, viruses, unlike fungus and bacterial infections, take time to express symptoms.
Often perfect care can prevent the expression and stress can reveal it.
Some viruses only infect a part of the orchid and then slowly spread and can be stopped by removing the infected part. I don't know what you have, though.

Here was an earlier thread about mystery rings on den leaves. You might find it interesting. I know many den leaves are very touchy and easy to lose leaves on some plants. The rings are concerning but it doesn't look like your flowers have any abnormalities from what I can see in the pictures.

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...endrobium.html

I appreciate the link you gave me, however the "mystery ring" on dendrobiums isn't quite like this. I have basically the same thing on several dens and it doesn't worry me. I compare it to those little black spots that lots of oncidium hybrids get. I just shrug at them "ehhh no big deal."

But this is different. The target-shaped nature of these blotches freaks me out so much.

This is also the first time I've seen this pop up on the plant- perhaps the flowers just aren't showing symptoms for this bloom cycle.
Thanks for your input!

---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------

I don't think it is a leaf naturally dying. It's at a high up and random spot on the plant, and I can clearly see the little target-shaped lines on the leaf. The plant is naturally shedding a few leaves on old growths at the bottom, but it looks quite different from this suspect leaf.

I've contacted the vendor and sent them pictures of the plant, so hopefully they can do something about it.

It's interesting information about tobacco smoke and touching plants. I had no idea about that! I didn't know that, but luckily I don't smoke anyway so my plants are at low risk once they're in my care. :)
So so interesting, though!

Thanks for your help.

Unless you JUST got that plant, and it was like that upon arrival, I don't know what you can reasonably expect from the vendor. Viruses can be transmitted by splashing water, you during handling, cutting tools, and insects - probably other means, as well. If you've had it more than a few days, there is no way to know that it may not have come from another plant in your collection.

Some believe that plants carry everything to which they have ever been exposed (as is the case with us, by the way), and may very well live on just fine, UNTIL some external stress is applied that "tips the balance", such as a period of poor culture. (I'm not saying yours is poor - just that it's a common stress...)

Personally, I'd dispose of that plant, disinfect the growing area, and keep a close eye on the rest of your collection.

Thanks Ray-

I'm not expecting anything from the vendor. I simply wrote them to inform them that they might have an issue and wished them a pleasant day.
I have had to inform one vendor that a plant arrived to me with a soggy orange mush leaf probably from bacteria, and they were quick to offer me a replacement or refund, and I felt that was reasonable. They also thanked me for writing them immediately after getting the package!

In this situation, who knows where the virus came from. It would be like getting a cold sore and blaming your current boyfriend for it when most people have some form of HSV and can get it in childhood or at any age.

We do indeed carry all of those viruses. Chickenpox lying dormant and returning as shingles comes to my mind.

I am slowly accepting that I have to toss this plant, but it is my favorite foliage and it just hurts to part with it!

What do you suggest for disinfection? Anything beyond wiping things down with alcohol or spraying with peroxide?
Thank you.

I wouldn't assume it is virused just yet. I have recently been testing a number of my orchids (mostly Catt's) with the Agdia test strips that test for Cymbidium Moasaic Virus and Odontoglossum Ringspot Virus. A lot were negative but a number were positive for one, or the other or both viruses. Needless to say they are all in the garbage (boo hoo).:_(. Not one of them had markings like that. I think a lot of these things can be fungal and bacterial too. I have had a problem with ugly blotching and suspicious marks on some of my Catts, and yet many others are clean and spotless. Of course the blotchy ones were the first ones I tested. I can't remember if a single one of them was positive for virus. It was the clean ones that usually grew well (some languished) but refused to bloom. Or they bloomed with the very obvious colour break in the blooms. Those few were all positive. I was able to buy 5 strips only from the lab in Canada that represents Agdia. Still not cheap and since then I have ordered larger batches of test strips. But you could contact Agdia and see if they sell smaller amounts of strips. I had to pay import fees too and you wouldn't have to do that. With import fees included a batch of 25 came to $8.00 per test here in Canada. Not that steep if it's an orchid you don't want to part with. Maybe someone would split a pack with you. I have done that several times with friends.

I'm considering it, but I don't have any plant nerd friends around. It's not really financially feasible for me to buy $8/orchid tests all at once when I acquired these (for the most part) slowly on my shoestring budget. I think I will bring the orchid to the OS meeting tomorrow and ask them about it.

It isn't just blotchy on the leaf, though. There are distinct concentric circles around the blotching, and I am adding a better photo to the original post, so maybe people can see better.

Anyway, thanks for your stories about testing your orchids, and for your advice!

Considering I had the import fees and a terrible exchange rate, my guess is you would pay about $5.00 to $6.00 U.S. per test. Mine were good for a year if kept them in the fridge. But it depends how much you spent to get the plant and invested in potting media, etc. as to whether another few bucks are warranted. Also how easy it is to replace.

Here is a great article I found. Hope it is of interest.

http://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/19...117N_13659.pdf

As Silken said, a number of pathogens can also produce ring spots, especially fungi. I have been informed by many growers (with more experience than I have) that you CAN'T diagnose a virus just by looking. You CAN visually identify problems that could make you suspect a virus.

Your concern that a potential virus could spread to other plants is justifiable. Based on your other posts, you have a fairly large number of plants now - it is probably worth buying a few test kits to see if this one plant is virused. If not virused - it's a worry removed. If virused - discard the plant, isolate others that were nearby, and maybe test them. Possibly suspend buying other plants until you know the problem is contained. At $5 to $8 for the tests Silken mentioned, you could buy 2 or 3 tests for the price of one new plant. You probably don't need to test all plants, but it is probably worth knowing your plant collection's "status" before buying more plants and possibly infecting them.

Sorry to read this Astrid. I think it is something all orchid growers have to go through. The only way to know for sure is to test, that much is certain. Keeping them all from touching each other and not letting any fluids drip or otherwise pass from plant to plant will minimize possible transmission.

I have infected plants that cannot be replaced, so I hold on to them, but keep them a good distance from the healthy ones.

BLESS YOU ANGEL OF KNOWLEDGE!!!
May I ask how you went about locating this? I was using my student access to scifinder, and I did find one interesting article, but I'd love to find more similar to this.

Scifinder mainly had advanced genetic techniques for detection of the diseases, and I would like a slightly more qualitative and macro approach (at least in part, like the paper you linked me has!).

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------

How do the infected plants do? Are they suffering or drooping?
I can definitely replace this orchid, but I will have to save up for it. Maybe I'll find a better smelling one- this one smells kind of like babies (like, their lil soft baby skin not their poop) to me and I don't like it in a flower.

I try to keep the plants from touching each other as much as possible, and will continue to do this for evaaaaaa.

Thanks!

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

Are you an AstridWhisperer, too? Playing up my sympathies to get me to fork over some $$$ to do a few tests?

Okay sneaky-pants, maybe I will do that. I would really be devastated if I got a bunch of plants and had to toss them all over this.

I also think Agdia has a branch right here in my city, so I might as well go in for a visit/call.

:biggrin:

How do they do? Some very well, not showing any sign of infection unless they get a little stressed, for example in the winter indoors with lower humidity. Then the spots and blotches start appearing.

I did have one Phal that was infected with both ORSV and CymMV and even it managed to put out a spike with five flowers this spring. Afterwards, however, it barely had enough strength to put out one little root. I finally discarded it yesterday. Had a ceremony and everything.

Hi Astrid, maybe there is already enough information for you in the replies you got, bud maybe this will help a little bit too. It was an explanation given to me by a plantprofessor (not the correct term bud you know what i mean) specialized in plantvirusses. His 'simple' way of putting it made a whole clear to me, and put my mind more at rest. Maybe you already know this but just in case:

An orchid virus is like a little closed package.
It can not multiply it self outside the plant like a bacteria. So if 1 virus package would swim around in a watertank it will stay only 1.

It also cannot pierce/push it self into an healthy orchid plant. The plant has to be freshly damaged for the virus to enter. And also healthy roots don't let the virus in, they also have to be damaged or crushed.

Only when a virus package gets in the damaged cell of an orchid it opens it self and uses the proteins in the cell to skip from one cell to the other.

Hope this well help! 👋👋👋

I'll start by saying, I don't test. And here's why:

• There are more viruses than available tests.
• There are other things more detrimental (I suppose that is a matter of opinion).
• No point unless you test all your plants. You don't reduce the chance of transmission if you don't know the status of all your plants.
• Some say nearly all orchids are virused (I don't know their logic but I have my own theory that viruses are present).
• A virus positive plant may flourish and flower normally.

Caveats:

Practice good hygiene.
Isolate any suspicious plants-maybe forever.
Full disclosure when gifting/trading/selling.

Critter Creek Labs does testing from mailed in samples for $5 each
Critter Creek Laboratory

I would remove that one suspicious leaf. After reading that article where the one virus moves through the vascular system and the other cell by cell....
I would probably use a cotton ball with bleach to dab the wound after removing the leaf. The leaf could be sent in to Critter Creek or you could use a test (?).

Update on the orchid:

So, this leaf is changing color so rapidly and going mushy that I think it has caught a bacterial infection instead. In just 3 days, the plant went from healthy, to having a mottled leaf, and now the leaf is becoming transluscent/mushy.

I guess this is a bacteria instead?
UNFORTUNATELY these are the SAME leaf symptoms as this cattleya I ordered on ebay which arrived with an orange mush leaf. Maybe my plant caught something? I don't know how it would have happened as I tossed the sick catt within about a day and didn't water it or cut it.

I think this type of thing comes on so quickly that 4 days in shipping and a healthy leaf can look awful.

I am just going to let this plant sit on my desk for a few more days and see what happens. /shrug

I just think some dendrobiums have very touchy leaves anyway.

I would cut off the entire cane, being careful not to touch the infected leaf to anything. If you're a student, do you have access to a lab with microscopes? I'd want to have a closer look.

Also, is there a plant biology professor you could talk to? Universities are such great resources!

[QUOTE=AnonYMouse;759517]

• Some say nearly all orchids are virused (I don't know their logic but I have my own theory that viruses are present).

Well, they are obviously wrong. :lol:
Many plants (including orchids) are virus free.

When people say things like "all are this way" "such and such is NEVER the case", well, you know they are wrong.

Unfortunately, the incident of virused orchids will not decrease because many nurseries do not care enough (only money, grow and ship out, sell out) or simply not practical or possible to properly control the handling of plants in a way to reduce virus infection.

Plus, all the hobby growers and general public who buys orchids (cut flower or potted) often do not know about the virus, or do not care (for my society, I'm laughed at for my proper care) , and they exchange and give away...etc.
No wonder virus is all over the world.
It is a highly frustrating situation that makes me want to quite orchids sometimes.

In the same way that people can contain viruses, but not show disease symptoms, it is possible for orchids and other plants to contain viruses while remaining asymptomatic: Orchid Viruses

I wouldn't necessarily say that ALL orchids are virused. But, many orchids that appear healthy may still contain viruses. The older the plant, the more that it has been exposed to insects, or bad cultural practices, the greater the chance it has picked up a virus. Good cultural practices help reduce the chance that viruses are being spread between apparently healthy plants.

I think every living thing has some sort of virus. How many people have had chicken pox? A wart? How many viruses are asymptomatic?

Whether or not those viruses cause problems in the long term is another question. :)

I appreciate all your comments!

Most viruses will keep asymptomatic till they can spread enough with age or when the plant is feable or under heavy stress. Then bingo.

That's why also signs are first on old leaves and not the new. Also some kind of mecanism (fast growth and mytosis) protects young plants ans new leaves (save in desperates cases for the last).

Not all are infected, depends of the origine and care of cultivation before it reaches you and you at home, the presence of vectors… We have stats on the spreading made in Brazil, starting with clean plants propagated in a nursery. At propagation they were virus free. After 3 years of culture and normal care, about 60% of the Catts were infected. It can sure spread. But it doesn't mean it is visible or will be an issue save for the rest of a collection, because the plants can spread the virus then to others thru daily care by the homegrower or mealies, thrips etc.

There's no need to be paranoid on the virus issue, most orchideist know their job, but you can be sure the original nursery in Asia is that clean, unfortunately, for example : never buy catts from Asia, way too many virused plants unfortunately. But in Asia they worked a lot in Taïwan to clean the phals from contamination and it's improving.

So, what to do?

- while shopping, avoid palnts with spots on leaves or strikes/breaks in flowers.
- watch for leaves when clearer spots not evoluting appears, or circular markings appears (it must DRIIIING in your head this last and test!)
- check all flowers for breaks and strikes, if any, separate and watch the next flowering and if it occurs again, test.
- mosaic signs can be measleading, check first for fungus or mites, and if no improvement, test.

Note that the only sure diagnosis is testing ! And don't be paranoid, there's way more chances to have mites or mealies.