Hello - Phalaenopsis Propagation and Transpanting Questions
 

Hello - My first post here. To say that I'm 'new' to growing orchids would be wrong, but it wouldn't be "right" either because of the word "growing". What I have been doing that's not "growing" orchids is killing orchids for about 30 years. (If you are not interested in my background or the "history" of the plant in question, you can skip to my questions below in red.)

I have a pretty good "green thumb" and there are darned few plants I can't get to grow, propagate, and flourish. Orchids have been one of the "darned few". I love orchids and have been 'pursuing' them for at least 40 years. To date, I have NEVER been able to get one to live more than about six months, and those that lasted six months were on a downhill slide not long after I got them.

Ever the optimist, every few years I buy another one wishing - with ever-decreasing hope - that this new one will "work out". Well, one finally did. It must be a super-orchid because it has survived some 16 months now and has actually survived two Alaskan winters. (Indoors of course.) This is such an impressively tenacious plant that I have been encouraged to actually join an orchid forum and seek assistance with "what to do next" before I figure out a way to kill this one. I've grown quite attached to it for it's hardiness, and would hate to see ignorance on my part kill it now.

A brief background on this particular plant:
1) I bought it at a local "grocery store" - Fred Meyer - and it is still in the original GLASS "pot". About a 4" cube.
2) As I said, it's about 16 months in my house at this date.
3) It was blooming when I got it, and after that initial bloom, it has not bloomed.
4) However, it HAS put out LOTS of runners. (There are pictures below.)
5) Initially, I simply watered it (well-water) when the sphagnum was dry. Then I fertilized it once a month in the summer with "Miracle Grow". Then I heard that orchids like "fish water", so for about the last 9 months or so it has been getting water from my fish tanks.
5) It has grown, but it has not blossomed.
6) It has produced LONG and many runners. At least I think they are runners. At first I thought they might be flower stalks, but no such luck.

Here are my questions:
1) I THINK I want to transplant it. Primarily for ITS sake. If "y'all" suggest otherwise, I won't. I'm concerned about "shocking" it when I remove it from it's current glass container. How concerned do I need to be about "shocking" it by removing it from its existing container?

2) Should I put it in a water-tight container like the one in which I received it and it has be growing for the past 20 months?

3) Could I cut off the "shoot" and "root" it in a separate container?

4) Can I encourage the runners to make new plants by wrapping apical meristems in wet sphagnum or terminate them in adjacent pots until they produce a new plant?

Here are pictures of the plant.
Or not. Apparently "new" members can't post images if those images are hosted off-site (photobucket). That's 'unfortunate' - to say the least and seems counter-productive. I was trying to save this site storage by using an off-site host!

So, before I get a bunch of grief as a "newbie" for not posting images: I tried, but the site wouldn't let me. Therefore, I cannot show you the "shoot", the "runners", the "ripe-banana-colored" leaf, the nature of the existing sphagnum, and the container it is currently in.

I would REALLY like to not kill this plant, and 'your' help in preventing that is greatly appreciated.

Paul

PS - Good grief! After the "Newbies can't use urls" error, I got an "error" message telling me "The number of tags you tried to add to this thread exceeded the maximum number of tags by 4." When IN FACT, EYE (for emphasis) didn't use ANY tags. All of the tags were generated by the system, and in fact I REDUCED the superfluous ones. This forum makes posting difficult. The fact that I bothered this far should be some indication how important this plant is to me.

Paul

PPS - I see that the "edits" I made to the tags also was ignored. The superfluous ones still abide. I own and operate a vBulletin forum. "You guys" must really have some SERIOUS "hacking" problems to make this level of restraint/control necessary!

Paul

Welcome, Paul.

Going out on a limb - If the runners are spongy white things with a green tip, they're roots. They won't form new plants and you should leave them on your plant. The fact that it's forming new roots means you're doing OK with it. Now you need to figure out how to coax it to bloom.

Not many people grow orchids in closed containers with no drain holes. Most people find them easier to grow in containers with drain holes.

Most people repot Phalaenopsis early in the year when new roots are just forming. This is partly because it is easier to get the roots into the new pot when they are shorter. Some people repot this kind of orchid every year or every 2 years.

A lot of orchids might get confused with your day/night variation over the year. Unless you're using artificial lighting in your long winter nights and covering your plants in early evening in the summer, they won't know what season it is.

Many phaelenopsis need a few weeks with cooler but not freezing temperatures in the fall to initiate bud formation. It's in your heated home so it might not be getting this cooler period.

If you go to the beginner's forum you will see a sticky discussion "The Phal abuse ends here." There is a lot of information there that will probably answer your questions better than we can without photos. Look at the top left menu, Forums, then click on Beginners. It is in the sticky discussion section at the top.

Thank you VERY MUCH, estacion seca!

If I understand correctly, the roots of epiphytic orchids photosynthesize. I mention this because the "runners" i spoke of are not "white" or even "whitish". They are "light green" with a whitish "veil" over the length excepting the apical tip which is very green with no 'veil'. I could easily believe they are roots though.

I will go to the site you mentioned. Thanks again for your friendly response!

Paul

PS - I could send (if the site will let me) a couple of images to you via PM if you are amenable.

Paul

Apparently I have a "keiki" offshoot from the original plant. (Learned from the link suggested my estacion seca.) Thanks!

Paul

You're describing Phalaenopsis roots perfectly.

A picture is worth a thousand words. As soon as you see the pictures, I'm sure you will declare the "runners" as roots.

Paul

Welcome.

I'm not going to address each question.

The runners (rhizomes, Phals don't have them) are probably roots. Phalaenopsis don't propagate that way. Babies (keikies) may develop at various points, notably at the base and on nodes on the spike. This is not a regular thing.

You should know what materials are in the pot. Sphagnum moss, bark, a mixture? Do you have access to more? This is a big issue for many people. Whatever is in there now, seems to be working for you. Replace it with same if you can.

Check the condition of the roots. Remove any desiccated or mushy ones.

Most of us need holes in our containers for air circulation and water drainage. Could you have a plastic pot in there and the glass is just decorative?

The average grower cannot plant roots and shoots (not sure what you are referring as shoots) and expect to produce a new Phalaenopsis. Other types (genera) orchids can be divided, though.

Read the first few pages of The Phal abuse ends here and perhaps some random other pages as well.

Sorry for the abrupt end, was more than I bargained for.

Oh yeah - I'm sure you are quite right about the ambient temperature regime to which this plant is exposed. Probably a little warmer in the winter than the summer, but only by about 5 degrees F max.

Overnight temps are in the 50s now. If I were to put this plant outside (in a shady spot), do you think the temperature "shock" might induce flowering? We are about two weeks from solstice, and plants up here are VERY sensitive to changing diurnal photo-periods because the daylight/darkness ratio changes rapidly. I mention this in the context of the temperature 'shock' being in 'conflict' with photo-period. In other words, daylight is still increasing for two more weeks. Would the plant be "confused" by getting 'cold' at night but photo-period still increasing? Of course it would be easy to wait until late August when the nights will be cooler and the photo-period decreasing by about 5 minutes per day.

Paul

You sent me the photos privately. The plant above the growing medium looks amazingly good but is dark green, so it is not getting quite enough light.

The runners are indeed roots. The ones in the air are, quite logically, called aerial roots. They are very healthy. Many plants make aerial roots when the roots in the medium are in trouble. This is what is happening with your plant.

You have diligently kept the undrained glass cube with sphagnum moss filled to the brim with water. The moss is covered with dark green algae. Your plant's old roots are all dead from the point where they enter the moss on down. In the third photo you can see the roots turn black from the point where they touch the moss on down. Not many orchids can grow with their roots submerged in water, and after you repot the plant you will need to treat it differently.

The plant has survived because the aerial roots are absorbing enough water to supply the plant. I might guess you get the aerial roots wet from time to time.

Yes, I would repot the plant. When you unpot it, cut off the dead stem and roots with a clean, sharp pair of scissors you sterilize with alcohol between cuts. Put the plant into a somewhat larger container with plenty of drain holes in the bottom. People who tend to overwater plants often get better results from containers that are shallower and wider than those often used for orchids. A Phalaenopsis hybridizer here in Phoenix uses plastic bulb pots for many of his plants; they are about half the depth of standard round plastic pots.

Set the plant so the aerial roots are just below the surface of the new medium. Many people would use chips of bark for the medium. You will be able to manipulate the roots more easily if you get them wet first.

It is important from that point on not to keep the medium soggy wet. Water it and let it almost dry out before you water it again. You can find information in the beginners section on using a wood barbeque skewer to test how wet the medium is.

You can learn a lot more in the Phal abuse section as well.

Good luck, and keep us informed.

Anon Y Mouse - Thanks for the reply.

The plant is in "pure" sphagnum. Getting more is a non-issue. I probably have 100 bales worth of it growing on my property.

I'm sure you are absolutely right about the "keiki".

What I was thinking when I thought the roots were "shoots" or "runners" was vegetative reproduction. With "air roots" such as these, is it not possible that they would/could produce a new plant if the tip were inserted/allowed to lay in a bed of moist sphagnum? I'm not arguing, just speculating.

The glass container is the only container. There is no internal pot. A picture would show you that the glass is clear. In fact, that is how I determine when to water. When I can see the level of "moistness" is near the bottom of the glass, I FILL it with water. This filling usually lasts about two weeks. As I mentioned, I now use water from my fish tank to water the orchid.

Thanks again,
Paul

Disregard most of what I said. After reading the other posts, most do not apply.

Thank you very much for the instructions estacion seca. Your comments only endear me to this plant even further. It not only has survived my abuse, it has almost 'flourished"!

I have a couple of more questions if I might be so bold.

1) Many of the aerial roots are "areal", meaning that they are considerably above the level of the "crown" of the main plant. Getting them "below grade" will be a challenge. Should I just try to get their tips into the new sphagnum?

2) Should I sever the keiki and start it anew? I could easily get its roots in a sphagnum/bark medium.

3) Can I use the naturally growing sphagnum from my property? Is there any harm associated with that?

Trying not to be a pest.

Paul

Some people grow some orchids in sphagnum moss, but I don't know of many phal growers doing this. I would think you could get away with it if you use a very shallow container, don't pack the moss tightly, and take care not to keep it soggy wet.

I wouldn't put a hybrid phal into 50 degree nights during the summer. It will be better staying in your house. In the fall, when days are around 10 hours long, let it get down to the mid 50s at night for two weeks or so. Don't let it freeze.

You won't be able to propagate it from roots without a tissue culture lab.

I almost hesitate to say this to a beginner, but there is a section on this board devoted to semi hydroponic culture for orchids. You might find that interesting as well. I bet I get spanked.

---------- Post added at 09:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

If I had that much fresh sphagnum available, I would learn how to use it for my medium no matter what other people told me. It holds more water than other media, and phal orchids in typical growing conditions shouldn't stay constantly wet. They shouldn't dry out, but they shouldn't be soggy wet. You will have to learn to pay attention to your media and use the skewer to check moisture below the surface.

You could separate the keiki or not. Up to you. You might put the plants into two different growing media and see what works best for you.

It's fine to leave the upper roots out in the air.

You're not a pest! Everybody here wants you to succeed.

THANKS to all!

I think I'm 'set' for the time being. I'll wade through the "Phal abuse" thread. (I'm currently on page 8.) Here's hoping I don't kill it in the transplant. BUT... I am encouraged to try again, even if this one does become 'compost'.

I'll try posting pictures again some time in the future when I have completed the transplant. Maybe after my membership is a few days old I can use a third-party host. I'll probably get a translucent "orchid pot" and "orchid growing medium" from Ebay or Amazon.

Oh yeah... "Fish water"... "Good", "bad", "waste of time/effort", "what orchids live for", makes no difference??? It's no trouble, so I'll probably continue, but I don't like perpetuating mythology.

Thanks again,
Paul

Fish water hasn't hurt your plant so far. I don't use mine on my orchids - it goes into an outdoor planter - but that is because I'm focusing on getting rid of 5 gallon bucketsfull and replacing the water in the tank. Also my tank water is over half Phoenix tap water, which is very high in (barely) dissolved minerals.

I hear ya about the "5 gal". I have a couple of 50 gal tanks, but a cupful gets to the orchid when it needs it. The rest goes down the bathtub drain. I should start putting it on my garden I suppose, but my garden is a long way from my fish tanks.

Paul

Chiming in on the sphagmum moss as someone who does have a phal planted in it. I don't have it packed in around the roots in the pot. I've basically just stuffed it in as best as I could and stuff the whole thing in the plastic pot. There are drainage holes at the bottom of the pot. I water it every 3-4 weeks, depending on how quickly the phal is soaking up the water. Best description I've heard of about when to water is when the moss (all of it) is "crispy dry". After a while, when you pick up the pot, you really do learn the difference in weight/feel of the whole thing between "soaked full of water" and "cripsy dry". Only water when crispy dry. If in doubt, don't water. This phal is still going strong. It has spiked for me and is currently growing a new leaf.

Let's see if I'm out of quarantine on posting images:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...pso5igioxh.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...psufsuviwi.jpg

Note the keiki on the left.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...psug6cxlwq.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...psggh9n15z.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps0lervg8i.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...pscxvvrsv7.jpg

That should give you a good idea of the 'nature of the beast'.

Thanks fudjy23 - I may go the sphagnum route. "They" are pretty proud of a handful of bark called "orchid medium" on Ebay. I'll look around locally and see if I can find some. It does beg the question though: If sphagnum is a poor growth medium for Phalaenopsis, why is that the preferred medium for "box store" orchids? I'm sure it has something to do with economy and/or marketing, but I would have expected it to be "OK" if the plants get transported and have clearly grown some in it.

Thanks again,
Paul

PS - I think the 'darkness' of the leaves is an artifact of photography. Compare the green density in the pictures with flash - the last two.

Paul

Sphagmum retains water really well. So, big box stores tend to have them planted in sphag (or something else that retains water well) so they don't have to water as often - less maintenance. Orchid growers tend to shy away from sphagmum because of the fact that it retains water so well and usually, it's packed in so well it ends up rotting the roots, not letting air flow circulate around the roots, and killing the plant.

So, you can plant in whatever is your preferred orchid medium of your choice. You just have to be aware of how you plant it and how often you're watering. Now that I've figured out how to not over water the phal planted in sphag, it has become another tool in my arsenal. For example, when I went away for a two week trip, the only orchid I really didn't worry about was the phal in the sphag because I knew it could survive 2 weeks being untouched and watered. It ended up getting a sunburn. The rest, I had to get a friend to water every couple of days while I was gone.

Funny how 'things' happen. Estacion seca PM'd me this evening inquiring into how my plant was doing. I had just finished transplanting it and planting the keiki this very day!

Here's what I told him about the move I made today:

I cut the 'pup' off and mounted it to a piece of bark to which I had secured a large wad of sphagnum. I embedded the air-roots in the sphagnum and soaked the whole assembly in water to "water-log" it. For the the time being I am going to keep the base of the assembly resting in a plastic container to maintain some humidity until I figure out how rapidly the sphagnum dehydrates.

I removed the main plant from the solid glass 'box store' container. The plant was rooted in a plastic cup approximately 5cm in diameter filled with sphagnum. (You were right AnonYMouse!.) Surrounding that was "orchid medium" - small bits of black bark. The cup looked hand-made and had a hole about 13mm in diameter in the bottom.

As was mentioned/thought, the roots in the cup were all essentially dead and rotted and the sphagnum was rotted. I removed the rotten roots and sphagnum, retaining the living roots, and transplanted the whole into a larger ceramic pot with drain holes and a drip plate. I used the orchid medium from the original container and made a depression about the size of the original plastic cup. I put sphagnum in that depression along with the living roots of the plant that had been in the plastic cup. I then filled the pot to the rim with sphagnum and soaked the container.

I covered as many of the air roots of the plant as I could with sphagnum. I assume they will "head for water" and grow down into the sphagnum as long as it is kept moist.

Paul

Sounds good! Keep us informed.

I've just been reading this and you've had some good tips. I will say that air roots that haven't been potted, will not usually happily head for water. They will struggle to adjust to now being potted. So be very careful to let them dry out before watering again. In nature, these plants cling to trees in tropical rain forests so their roots are never potted in medium. They get rained on and then rapidly dry off. So we usually put them in pots with lots of holes and an airy chunky medium to try and get air and quick drying to the roots with the convenience of pots since we can't all grow them on our trees. Knowing how they grow in nature helps me understand a bit how to care for them in my environment.

The moss that is often used is sterile New Zealand or Chilean long fiber sphagnum moss., I like it mixed with medium bark chunks to hold some water, but also provide good air pockets as the roots need air too. If you are talking about the thick cushions of green moss I see in some parts of Canada (haven't been to Alaska) I wouldn't really recommend it. It should be sterile to avoid introducing problem organisms and insects and it will likely be a pretty wet environment. The keiki would be one way you could experiment with two different growing methods as mentioned.

Good luck with your plant and if it is in local moss, knowing what these plants need in nature, maybe you can adjust your watering to account for the different moss.

Hi Paul

This is the first time I've read this thread, so I'm doing a little catch-up.

I will give my 2 cents on keeping most epiphytic orchids alive, including your Phalaenopsis. Most are killed by assuming the roots need to be constantly moist. To a certain extent, plants that stay too dry may not thrive, but usually stay alive. Phalaenopsis usually do best by balancing between the extremes, but going closer to the dry side. You want the medium to be nearly dry before you water again. With Phalaenopsis and similar orchids, it is all about keeping the roots alive; constantly moist roots die, roots that dry out sometimes will live and grow.

You can grow orchids in many materials if you can manage the water properly. I have grown orchids successfully in bark, lump charcoal, river pebbles, "lava rock", crushed stone, styrofoam packing peanuts, wine corks, and a few other materials. I don't know if you have sweet gum in Alaska (Liquidambar styraciflua species), but I am currently experimenting with growing Phalaenopsis potted in the seed capsules from that tree (going well I might add). I have never been able to successfully grow Phalaenopsis in Sphagnum (though some people have used it successfully). I have successfully grown other types of orchids in North American sphagnum, as long as it dries out between waterings.

I am guessing that in Alaska, you can easily get river pebbles that are about an inch in diameter. Those pebbles will make an excellent orchid medium and will never rot. Pot the roots of your Phalaenopsis in a pot with drainage holes using those pebbles, water twice a week, and your plant should thrive. When you water, do it at the sink, flood water over the roots only. Let the plant dry between waterings, it will be fine.

If you continue using sphagnum, I would suggest either growing in a terracotta (red clay) pot that wicks water away, or grow in a clear plastic pot where moisture can be observed through the pot. The sphagnum should be close to bone dry before you water again (no condensation visible through the clear pot).

Whatever you use, good luck!

I bought some live spagh moss on Ebay. It wasn't sterile and it is a bigger type than expected. I was going to use it for my butterworts but changed my mind. I tried it on my masdies, but they didn't like it. I also tried it on one of my very fine leafed epidendrum plants, and it loves it. I don't think it would be useful for a phal, but on something that needs to stay moist it can work.

Thank you all for your information and encouragement. My concern - before reading the above posts - was the plant drying out. After reading the above posts, I actually feel better about the sphagnum. Winter here is a VERY dry season. Houses are 'sealed' and the air gets heated and dried more than most other places. The humidity in my house in winter never gets above 20% and is often around 10. Plants that need higher humidity don't do well in my house over winter.

I water my house plants once a week. If I find this Phal needs twice a week I can remember that. Probably. :) But if drying out between waterings is "good", then I should be in "good" shape. Remember, this plant lived and actually produced a keiki under my abuse.

After having disassembled the original potting, I think I have a better understanding of "how things worked" in that glass jar. As was suggested, as I watered the jar only when I saw that it was not wet all the way to the bottom, the roots in the plastic cup were able to wick the water they needed from the surrounding bark. I'm hoping I have recreated that basic environment in the new pot - just larger.

There are many roots still "airborne" both for the keiki and the mother plant. If it doesn't 'like' the pot or sphagnum-covered bark, I am hoping it lets me know.

I was planning on soaking - floating it in the sink - the keiki once a week. Honestly, I don't think that will keep it moist enough in the winter, but we'll see.

I'll take some pictures and post them to show what the two plants now look like.

Thanks again,
Paul

Hi Paul,

I have a miniature monopodial orchid Pelatantheria insectifera on a cork mount that I got from Guillermo Salazar of Miami when he spoke to our club. I keep a spray bottle next to it and soak it twice a day or more with dilute orchid fertilizer in rain water. About once every two weeks I soak it face-down in a container of rain water. If I don't spray it almost daily it shrivels. It is making new leaves and maybe it will bloom in season this coming winter.

Phalaenopsis need more water than my Pelatantheria. You might consider putting the keiki someplace you can see it regularly, with a spray bottle right next to it. I think 10% relative humidity and weekly watering will be very hard on it.

Here are pictures the new 'digs'.

The keiki:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...psijap2akg.jpg

There is a bark slab beneath all of the sphagnum.

And the 'mother' plant:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...psujvbehud.jpg

This pot has approximately twice the volume of the original glass cube.

Paul

---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

I didn't see your post before I posted the pictures, estacion seca. Currently, it sits right in front of my 'computer station', so I will be viewing it regularly. I was thinking of something like the water spray bottle. I'll have to move it to spray it though. My wife won't 'appreciate' the overspray on the coffee table I'm sure.

I haven't seen this plant 'wilt'. I don't think it actually can. Its leaves are too 'leathery'. I have on occasion noted surface 'wrinkles' when it was in need of water though.

I don't have a place that gets good light to hang the bark plaque. That being the case, I'm considering creating some sort of dish or tray into which I can keep its 'toes' dipped. The 'toes' of the bark with maybe a little sphagnum in the water. What do you think of that as a method for maintaining an appropriate/necessary amount of humidity?

Paul

Patience is a virtue, and good advice ain't exactly 'chopped liver'
 

I thought some of you might like to hear some good news about my endeavors after receiving your good advice. Here is a picture of the keiko mentioned in the above posts, WITH ITS FLOWER STALK!

After a mere 40+ years of trying I have - with your assistance - been able to 1) Transplant/transfer an orchid from its original "grocery store" pot and not kill it, and 2) actually get it to produce a flower stalk. Here are two pictures.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...psz6aizdwt.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...psmrfrwjh2.jpg

The plant remains tied to the cottonwood tree bark panel that was covered with sphagnum moss from my yard, and the whole resting in a plastic container that I keep filled with water.

Thanks to all of you that helped! This is no small matter in my lifetime of growing things.

Paul

Yay! Great job!

Phal flowers for Christmas in Alaska! Good save, good growing!

Thanks!

And may you have a healthy and prosperous new year!

Paul

Paul congratulations on your first bloom. Please take pictures and post when its fully open so we can also see how beautiful it is.

It's nothing to "write home about", but it's fully a flower. It's only 4cm wide, but as 'they' say; It's mine.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...pso3a65xwk.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...psrueg3c6g.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...psqhhqq7vh.jpg

Comments on why it is small are welcome.

Paul

It looks to me like a mini phal, so it's normal to be that size.

I got the original 'mother' plant from which this keiki sprung about two years ago, so I'm not sure but I think it was "normal" sized, with flowers about 3 inches across. I could be mistaken.

I know these flowers last a LONG time. Is it possible that the flower itself is going to continue to grow?

This flower stalk is about 10cm long. The original flower stalk was probably 40cm/16in long.

Paul

I don't know. You'll have to grow it on and see what happens next time.

I happened to be back in the store where I bought the original orchid a couple of years ago, and decided to go have a look at the ones for sale today. I think you are correct that this is a "mini phal", estacion seca. There were two sizes of Phalaenopsis sp. for sale; one 'large' and one 'small'. While I cannot be certain that I chose a 'small' one, it's likely as I tend toward smaller varieties of 'things'.

Since the orchids for sale: 1) are looking pretty good, 2) I now have some confidence in my ability to keep them alive, and 3) they are reasonably priced, $12, I think I may purchase another one and get more 'serious' about the substrate/environment that I provide.

Thanks again,
Paul

You'll do even better this time.

Thanks for the 'vote of confidence'.

I was looking on ebay for the orchid from which vanilla beans come and turns out there are many for sale in various forms there. Before I get into asking a bunch of questions about raising one of those, is there a specific subsite on this forum that I should head since those 'vanilla orchids' are not Phalaenopsis?

Paul

In the maroon menu near the top is Search. The genus of vanilla orchids is Vanilla.

Thanks, I found a site, Miscellaneous & Other Genera, in which there were several threads on Vanilla sp.

Paul