Oak Hill--Another one bites the dust?
 

The website for Oak Hill Gardens states that they're no longer shipping (as of October 31) plants, and only selling to the local community at their location. Has anyone heard whether or not we're getting ready to lose another commercial orchid vendor? I always enjoyed talking to Herman whenever he would come to town for a show, so this will be kind of sad if Oak Hill is going the same way as many other commercial vendors.

I wonder why?

I have emailed them to inquire.

Maybe just a winter thing?

They have stopped shipping during the winter in the past. I did hear something, though, about them perhaps closing a greenhouse? Maybe that is why their orchids have been on a huge sale? They might be trying to save some money over the winter with heating costs, perhaps?
They are a really wonderful place from which to obtain orchids. I am very pleased with everything they have sent me. Their selection is very good, the plants sent are suburb/very healthy. It is one of my favorite places from which to buy orchids. If all goes well with the OS group order, I should be getting two more from them at the next meeting. :)

Oakhill has not been owned by Herman and family for some time now.

It is most likely that Oakhill is now closed for good. If so, I, for one, am not the least bit surprised.

Based on conversations I have had with a number of other vendors who had talked to the new owners (Garden Centre & Nursery) while at shows, it seems that GC&N bit off more than they could chew when they acquired Oakhill. Prior to the acquisition, GC&N entire focus was on production of flats of common outdoor bedding plants -- and that as mainly if not entirely a wholesaler. The folks I spoke with said it was pretty obvious that GC&N did not realize how different the orchid biz is from bedding plant production...
1) For example, with your average bedding plants, there is typically not a lot of info one needs to transmit to the customer. (Look at any tag on flat of petunias or marigolds -- other than light requirement and size there is nothing else generally mentioned.) With orchids, however, a vendor must be prepared and willing to go into detail not only about light requirements and size, but also blooming frequency, years to bs, what media is best used, temperature requirements, dormancy (if any), watering needs, etc.
2) Then there is the reality that, as an orchid vendor, one is not likely going to sell 3 or 4 flats of plants to a single customer. This necessitates keeping a wide array of stock which, in turn, requires the seller be more knowledgeable because of the reasons stated in #1.
3) From #2 arises yet another issue -- that wider array of offerings requires the seller to be willing and able to provide for the various needs of the orchids. By and large, the large scale production of bedding plants is brain-dead simple in comparison (generally all the plants in a greenhouse can take all the same conditions).
4) And let's not forget, the fact that orchids take so long to reach bs means that the seller will have to invest a great deal more time and other resources per plant.

Oak Hill Gardens does a great job as an orchid vendor and orchids are in the Acker Family. I would hate for them to quit selling orchids. :(
Yet, I understand a decision not to sell orchids. With bedding plants, you start them in March and that is when you begin heating the greenhouse. With orchids, you have to heat the greenhouse five extra months and through the coldest weather. People tend not to be as picky about bedding plants, either, as they are gardeners and have seen quite a few plants in their lifetime. With bedding plants, your main selling season is over by mid-June/early July and then you just have basket arrangements, replacement plants, and gardening paraphernalia to sell. Orchids are an all-year-round deal and then you have the shows. If a bedding plant dies, it is usually pretty obvious why (not enough water, late frost, too much water, etc) where, with orchids, people tend to blame the vendor. A greenhouse that sells annuals and perennials for the garden is a much simpler prospect than one that sells orchids. Someday, all of our orchids will either be mass-produced or come from Asia and many of the not so common species will disappear forever from US markets.

I think that's why it's extremely important that there are many hobbyists that maintain diverse collections of other than the "Lowe's orchids" (hybrid phalaenopsis, dendrobiums, etc.). If all of the specialist nurseries disappear, maybe we'll still have each other to trade plants and keep the more uncommon orchids in cultivation (just my opinion).

That is true...as long as the older collections are preserved and passed on to younger people who have a passion for them instead of being neglected or tossed.
I am glad I bought from Oak Hill Gardens when I could. I just looked at their website and I think you are right, that they are finished. How sad. I have a few from the old Oak Hill and quite a few from the new.

I too have some of their plants, so at least I'm glad for that.

You bring up another critical point: how do we get the younger generations interested in the hobby? I periodically go to a local meeting and it's like walking into an interactive museum exhibit. I'm frequently one of the youngest attendees, and I'm in my late forties.

I'm over 50 and I do not attend meetings nor belong to any OS. Just not my cup of tea, and increasingly not something younger people do. They congregate, just not at meetings listening to speakers or browsing displays.

A good educator can get people interested and maintain a higher level of interest. You're not going to get everyone but you can cultivate the ones who shows some enthusiasm.

if you look at it from the point of view that 50 is the new 25, then there is no problem at all :lol:
Every Orchid Society has this problem. I think its due to the fact that nothing much happens with orchids and the younger generations are more geared to being constantly 'stimulated'. I remember my folks telling me that they could entertain themselves with a rope and a stick. That sure has changed..
If I have told my son to get off the XBox/Computer/Smartphone a million times its not enough.
However, I am an old fart, so whaddya I know....

Please, let us know what they say. They have great plants, that is really too bad! :(

This topic has come up before. Do a forum search and you may be able to locate the discussion(s). Can't remember offhand what search terms would best be used.

In any event, much may come down to your society's attitude as well as how progressive they are contact-wise.

These days, folks like me who do not Facebook are quite a rarity. Thus it may well behoove an os to have a
regularly updated Facebook page. The page should have clearly indicated meeting times & location with information as to what will be the topic of discussion at that meeting and who the speaker (if any) will be. Upcoming events such as shows or outings should also be presented in an easily noticeable fashion. (Addresses and directions to the meeting hall, or event are a must.) Don't forget to supply some sort of contact information. A few up-to-date photos from past meetings or events should be posted regularly (not only of the plants but the people involved as well).

Attitude is a huge issue. For example, I have not been to an os meeting in years. The two os's within driving distance to me I found to be very cold/cliquish. As such I have no desire to bother with them. My first os, in sharp contrast, was extremely welcoming to any newcomers and seemed to lack any real cliques. Another possible attitude issue to watch out for is how any youngsters are treated by the "old guard." I recall a young'un I know from another forum relating an irksome issue he experienced when he first started attending an os in his region. At that time he was a teenager and was by far the youngest person there. Despite his youth, he had been growing several orchids and some other plants for a number of years. Because of his age, most of the elder members seemed to have had the notion that he couldn't possibly know much of anything about growing orchids or have much to contribute to discussions. While he had joined the society knowing there was undoubtedly a great deal to learn -- especially regarded plants he had yet to try -- he found it very off-putting to have his thoughts/opinions so quickly dismissed out of hand. If he hadn't been so strongly enamored with orchids he likely would not have bothered returning to that os. As it was, he said it still took months before anyone took him seriously and quit treating him like a complete child.

I was very bummed to hear about this. I put in my first and only order to Oak Hill this spring. I was very satisfied with my order. I got the seedling economy special, 10 seedling orchids for $44 shipped, hard to beat. There were quite a few surprises in that order, none of them a disappointment. I ended up with a blooming size Dendrobium cucumerinum, a very cool orchid!

That is sad news.
I was planning my first order with them for my birthday.

As far young people in the orchid hobby.
I'm 22, hope is not lost.
All my friends have orchids now.
Sure they aren't super into the hobby.
But even my friends with the blackest thumbs have at least a phal and dendrobium. Some have quite a few more.
Recently one of my friends bought her first ever micro mini.
So that's 12 more young people.

It's kind of hard to break into a hobby that's mainly older generations.

I'm a young guy, and I like to crochet. Love making scarves. So I went to a specialty yarn store.
The moment I entered the room every lady in the store went quiet, stopped knitting, and pursed their lips till I left.
I ended up not getting anything.
They shut down eventually. No one felt comfortable going.
Recently a new yarn store opened.I braced myself, and went.
Whole different experience. The store was warm and inviting, the ladies were extremely friendly and knowledgeable.
They really kept the younger generations in mind, with some very attractive knitted examples that were very on trend. The store was great with their online presence. Easy to find information on all the main sites. They had a few computers in the store too should you wish to look up stiches or patterns.
I had a great time and was very impressed.
So I really think it's all about how you approach younger generations.

I also like to garden, I went to a different nursery last week and was treated like I was an idiot for the same reasons. Never going back.

I've never felt much need to join an OS. The staff at the greenhouse I go to is very friendly and knowledgeable. This forum has been a suburb resource too.

I'm sad though that I'm breaking into hobbies just as they are going through a big shift.
Orchid nurseries shutting down.
A few rose and specialty plant nurseries I'll never get to order from.
Perhaps we should become more active with trading and selling divisions.
I've noticed that section isn't very happening.



Two last things.
I don't have Facebook. So there are young people who don't have one either.
Nothing against it, I just don't get the point.
And I think some of you would be surprised exactly often younger people are entertained by a stick and a rope.

To contribute to the discussion about involvement of younger people in OSs, I am a younger person, 29. There is a local orchid society in my community. They have a Facebook page, but it is never updated. Their Facebook page says they have meetings once a month, but they don't post the time and location of these meetings. So it's hard to tell whether I'm missing out on anything by not being involved with this group.

I've gleaned quite a bit of information about orchid growing from online forums, such as this, and from visiting a few commercial orchid growers and retailers. There aren't too many of them in my home state, Missouri, but whenever I visit them, I usually spend quite a bit of time pressing them to tips, tricks, and other info.

It would probably be nice to get involved with a group of fellow orchid growers in my community, especially if there were other members close to my age. I know they're out there. Not all millennials have their nose buried in their Iphone, or have their eyes permanently affixed to some sort of screen. Young orchid growers are out there, and it doesn't seem like OSs are doing to much to reach out to them.

:agree:

I really don't think the societies are reaching out to the younger generation, but I also think that the only way to make change happen is to get involved. I actually e-mailed my Orchid society president asking for any jobs that needed filled. I don't expect a high ranking one, but anything to make a difference helps.

Sure, I can sit here and say that it is all the societies fault, etc... etc... but what good does that do? I go to the meetings, and make newcomers feel welcome in a way that I did when i first joined. If people don't go to the society meetings because of a bad experience or 2 then they are, in a sense, perpetuating the negativity.

I can't say you'll change any aged minds, but what about newcomers coming into the group? You can make their experience better than the one you had. :twocents:

I am 13 and the youngest member of my orchid society, the local orchid society is friendly and well organised but I think they dont advertise themselves enough. I think that OS's arent doing much to reach younger people, and older ones to.

I know quite a few people who didnt even know there was a local orchid society so obviously they wouldnt have joined.

Shucks! I thought I was the youngest on orchid board😁


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Perhaps clubs and societies should reach out to elementary schools with projects. A couple of flasks, a couple of dozen pots and media wouldn't be too costly. A few divisions for group projects. You get the point. I was very fortunate to have been raised with orchids (and a veritable suburban jungle), most kids aren't.

Although I'm not a club/society meetings kind of person, I'd go, even join, for the right speaker. Webcasts would be great!

Anyway, it's important to maintain enough interest to keep vendors in business.

(Mods: perhaps we can spin this off into its own thread?)

My daughter got me interested in growing orchids. She's 20. She bought a phal at the grocery store and loved it so much that she got one for me for my birthday and that started the whole darned thing.

I don't attend OS meetings. Our OS is nice enough when you talk to the folks that are the club officers, but everyone else is just not very welcoming. I've tried going to meetings a couple of times and I just can't get into it. The other issue is really, for me anyway, I want to hear about what other club members are growing and how they're doing it where I live. Our OS doesn't really afford an opportunity for those kinds of open discussions. I really want to be SOCIAL and interact with other orchid growers in a way that going to OS meetings does not allow me to do. The OS meetings are mostly lectures and the auction. Folks don't sit down and talk to each other. Isn't that kind of the point of being a member of a society?

OB fills in that gap for me though. No one here seems to be local to me, but I can still learn from everyone's experiences with indoor growing and the information I've gathered here is why I'm still growing orchids a year later and it's why I am still enthusiastic about this hobby. You guys are the best.

I am not that young (39), but I am a new orchid grower. It really never occurred to me to join an orchid society. It occurred to me to join an orchid board. That's where I get my information. I've tried on the past to make friends through interests and have found that a single shared interest really isn't enough for me. As an introvert and a university lecturer trying to find a faculty job with an assistant professor spouse, driving a half hour to hang with a bunch of strangers who also like orchids doesn't really appeal to me. If I need help,I can get it here. If I need information, I can get it here without even bothering anyone. If membership were free,I might consider checking out a meeting now and again, but I'm not going to pay to join such a group.

On the other hand, I * have* sought out and met up with out of town friends that I've made on common interest boards. I've even taken one camping. The boards allow me to identify people I really like as friends, and when those people are in my town and vice versa, I make an effort to see them in person. I have several friends like that from a corn snake board, and I've run into real life friends on a tarantula board and ran into my favorite high school teacher on this board! But none of these people live in my town and would be at my local meetings of any societies.

We're the same age. :D

As we've been discussing societies and their efforts (or lack there of), I want to commend Carrie and Nikki (others, too. Names just aren't coming to mind right now) for announcing their society activities here. They've had speakers I would have gone to see (if local) and announced them here.

Internet competition for sales is insane and forces some to sell at below cost jus to make a sale. Even a large greenhouse located in the USA cant compete with the pricing of items being imported from overseas in bulk. So I can say again the internet has just robbed our lives and livelihoods.
You have to specialize in orchids like the cym growers do. They dont do anything else. A general Orchid retailer who sells everything IMO was and is doomed, just a matter of time till you see more people like "****"sell from stock they dont hold or have. They are just being a middleman again for the overseas sellers.
Parkside been sold
Golden Gate been sold
Orchid Babies done
Oak Hill done the list will go on

The problem is with the orchids being generally ugly plants when they arent blooming and no one wants them around but an orchid lover. You cant make the general public love ugly plants. You cant landscape with them you cant eat em. Orchids are pretty much a worthless endeavor. think about it some.........

cant make any money on them damn plants and all a retailer can hope for is he sells a lot of mix and fertilizer or sells a novel way of growing them :biggrin:

and OS's societes problems deserves its own thread so I wont elaborate

and I dont facebook either in fact I dont even have a computer or internet at home :)

I completely understand. I pay dues to belong to professional organizations and pay fees to go to the meetings they host. I'm just not interested in paying for information if I can get it for free. I'd pay dues here before my local orchid society because here I have access to many more people and their expertise.


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Of course, I could be spoiled. As an academic at a institution with a good library I can get almost any printed literature I want without paying for it, and I can ask colleagues to edify me without expecting to pay them. Sometimes we get one or a couple hundred dollars honorarium for a guest lecture, but often not. We get to put an invited lecture on our CVs, is all. And you're right--if a far-away citizen primatology club asked me to travel to them to give a guest lecture, I'd be hard-pressed to do so for free.


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But then again, don't think I didn't pay for this luxury in student loans. I did. Still am! ;)


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Most orchid societies don't mind if you attend for a few months without paying...a trial period. This gives a prospective member a chance to see if they want to be a part of the society. The benefits of joining our Akron, Ohio society is the free orchid at the end of the year and, if one joins at our show, there is usually a free orchid then, too. Two orchids and a membership for $20. Not too bad. :)

---------- Post added 11-12-2014 at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was 11-11-2014 at 11:59 PM ----------

I do understand how expensive college is. We have two of our kids in college right now (and involved in professional societies) and they cannot wait to work every holiday and all summer as they are pretty desperate for $. Good luck with your studies!

Regarding Oakhill, I noticed a decline in the interesting stuff they stock since the nursery got sold to new management. Goodbye, fascinating dendrobium species, d. lindenii seedlings, etc...as Paul mentioned, I'm am also not surprised this is happening.

Excuse my little rant, but in my humble opinion, I do wish more people would get interested in species. Beyond the whole species snobbery thing, it is only through the cultivation of species that we keep incredible places like Andy's, Troy Meyers, and the OSBP alive. Kew is obsessed with cataloging plants, storing seed and pollen in deep freeze for god knows when. Meanwhile, these plants are being chopped down along with the forests around the world, and any attempts at import are strangled to death by CITES. It's an ironic twist that a convention intended to protect these species instead dooms them to the grave, locked in their own countries where they are burned to make way for farms. The ones that make it out are clones, with almost no genetic diversity, and even that is becoming limited. Any hybrid can be recreated, but once a species is gone, it's gone forever.

Regarding OS, as a younger member, I once brought in 3 angraecoids I had blooming, including a somewhat rare aeranthes arachnites. I was probably one of less than 3 people in Canada growing this plant, and yet, the comment from the show announcer regarding this plant was "most of these look sort of the same." Somewhat discouraging, but it highlighted that most people like big, pretty, colourful flowers, and the interest in the new, the different, and the exotic is limited. Unless that interest is fostered in new growers, whether in OS or online forums, the only thing left in collections will be hybrid catts and oncidium intergenerics, and these nurseries will also go extinct.

The discussion of hobbyists focusing more on species has been brought up with heated contention in the past. Unless people truly understand the direction this hobby is headed, there will be strong opposition to this.

In terms of getting youth involved...here're my two cents...

They need to be taught very, very young about the beauty of nature and the habitats the orchids come from. There must be no negative stigma of being humiliated for sexual orientation for growing an orchid, (even at 36, some of my friends occasionally rib me in this way about growing orchids, which irks me a bit; I'm able to brush this off because I know they're not serious, but little kids don't get it). Kill the horrible myth that ALL orchids are difficult to grow once-and-for-all. Do not tear the child down for failing to grow an orchid, instead offer help to come up with solutions to their problems. Maybe, just maybe, there might be enough young people who could get into the hobby without a whole lot of hang-ups.

Perhaps if there were no stigma about being gay in the first place . . . A little more important, IMO, than whether people think you're gay for growing flowers . . .

This is the ideal situation, my comment was meant to encompass both scenarios.

Perhaps someday, humanity will forgo hurtful labels and instead realize that what makes the world a wonderful place is the diversity that is found all around. The variety of flowers, plants, people, animals, stars, buildings, sunsets, etc. What a boring life we would all have if there was no variety. :|

I select my orchids based completely on whether I like them and want to make the accommodations necessary to grow them. I have mostly species, some primary hybrids and some complex hybrids. Most, but not all, are fragrant.

I think orchid societies need to do more 'outreach' and introduce orchids to the public. Orchids are not difficult compared to other houseplants when set up correctly. As with any houseplant, people just need to be taught how to pick the correct one for their environment and how to care for it. I am trying to convince our Orchid Society to do this but, well, we shall see. :|

Interesting thoughts; I've never encountered "attitude" about being gay and growing orchids. I find too often there is a deep divide between the "old" guard (read, those growers that remember when you could gain cultural information either by making the trip to where something grew naturally, or by attending proceedings to listen to somebody droll on ad nauseam about their observations, findings, research, etc) and the rest of us (read, I know how to use technology; if I want concise information I'll email the author of the article, one of the current growers, etc.)
We are slowly seeing things change--the acceptance of digital photography for AOS judging; the reformat of the AOS Journal into both print and digital editions, etc. Don't get me wrong, there are still a lot of things that need to be changed imho: CITES needs to be reworked on a massive scale, the AOS needs to be more supportive of both it's local branches and vendors/nurseries here in the US, etc.
As a very specialized grower, I frankly find the species vs hybrids debate/argument irrelevant. Do I wish there were more species on the market? Yes. Do I wish there were more hybrids on the market? Yes. That being said, what I as a hobbyist ultimately hope for is the ability to purchase those plants that I desire at a fair price.
Sorry to hear about Oakhill passing, it joins the ranks of Hoosier Orchids, RJ Rands, Ratcliffe Orchids and others.

J & L might soon join those ranks.

Mountain Orchids also seems to be taking less of an interest in selling orchids nowadays.

I've also heard on passing that growing orchids "are for old people". If it has been brought up, and someone my age has heard it, I'm almost certain those younger than me have heard it at one point or another. If the youth are to be involved, it has to be known that this IS NOT JUST an "old people's hobby" or a hobby for retired people. It is a hobby for everyone of any gender, of any sexual orientation, and of any age who may be interested in these plants.

I think that we as individuals can help with outreach as well, if we just look around. I was at a customer's over the summer(I do aquarium maintenance), when I noticed a Phal on the kitchen windowsill. I asked about it and it turned out it was given as a gift. His attitude was that it was beautiful, but since orchids were so difficult he expected it to die. When I mentioned how easy they really are his first thought was to offer it to me. I was able to convince him to make a few small changes as to its potting and assured him that it didn't do well for him that I would take it. Yesterday I was there, and that plant is starting to get nice fat buds on the new spike it put out. Plus there are now about a half dozen others on windowsills around the house, including one very sad looking one that he bought to rescue! He wants to try something other than Phals now, so next time I go I told him I'd bring him a surprise. You'd have thought I offered an alcoholic a drink! Had I ignored that first little Phal, or just accepted it when it was offered, there would be one less orchidaholic in the world.

@Subrosa:

What was the approach? I've done this a multitude of times, and most of the times I get excuses.

Maybe my approach turns them off, or jars them, or something…; somehow, it feels as if a good number of people have an extremely tough time listening to what I'm trying to say.