CO2 enrichment thread
 

Hello everyone
I have just started a controlled co2 enrichment on my phal collection. I would like to share any findings I my have with all of you that are interested. I plan on posting any negative or positive results I have.
So if your interested so kindly post in this thread. If their is enough people interested I will make the effort to post details about setup, culture and negative or positive results.

Please post at least an outline of your protocol. Otherwise, we don't really know what you're up to.

I really don't have no set protocol you could say.
What I'm looking for is faster growth, recovery, more blooms etc. My guess would be what anybody would what that grows orchids or plants for that matter.
I'm not a scientist just a hobbyist so I cant tell you the co2 up take or if the stoma is open or closed ect.
I can how ever tell co2 concentration (PPM) day/night,
temperature day/night, relative humidity day/night, light intensity (Fc or lux), photoperiod used, nutrients and supplements used. And I think the best info would be photos of growth and go from their.

I'm not a scientist, but I do wonder if you have more than one you are testing and documenting and if you have another group for comparison in the exact same conditions which you aren't applying the regimen to. Observing a single success/failure without comparison in a group unfortunately doesn't yield accurate results. Based solely upon my perspective from a statistical standpoint, without further testing and observation of other groupings (given your treatment and not given it, among perhaps other factors) it is a singular instance and may not be indicative of reliable results.

Please do not think I am negating your experiment! Quite the contrary! I applaud you for attempting this actually. Your pursuit of knowledge and willingness to test is commendable. Don't be discouraged and keep asking the questions and seeking answers. That is the only way we all learn and grow. My commentary was only meant as constructive criticism.

I just re-read. You did state "collection" so that somewhat answers my question regarding the number of orchids involved in your test. I would still like to know if they are given the exact same conditions and if there is a group not receiving the treatment to test against. Again, I applauded your efforts to try this.

Hi Paul
Yes it is a group of about 30 phals and no their isn't anything to compare to them. You do make a great point and I did think about, but don't have the room or want to spend the money on a duplicate set up. I do understand what your saying completely but this is all I can do at this time.
I should have mentioned I grow indoors in a grow tent.
Conditions are easily controlled.

Here's a little about my grow tent and set up.
Grow tent is 48"X24"X84"
I got this one because of the height. The shelving unit I have is 36"X16"X74 and fit in it.
It also has a small window that I liked. 2 windows would have been better.
I only grow on 2 of the shelves. Each shelve has 3 36" sun blaster T5ho.
Co2 controller I went with the titan controls atlas 3. It was the only controller I found that allows Co2 enrichment at night and off during the day.

Why would you want to increase CO2 at night when the plants are releasing it themselves? I have no experience with orchids and CO2 enrichment, but considerable experience with planted aquaria and a certain other plant commonly grown indoors. In both instances enrichment occurs in the day portion of the photoperiod while the plants are actively photosynthesizing and is turned off at night.

CO2-Enriched-Hydroponic-Growing - Manic Botanix

JAMA Network | JAMA Psychiatry | The Influence of an Illusion of Control on Panic Attacks Induced via Inhalation of 5.5% Carbon Dioxide-Enriched Air

Phals are CAM plants.

What ppm and how long are you doing the elevation? I have wondered about CO2 injection for CAM. In theory, the benefit of CO2 should be smaller for CAM than to C3.

CO2 enrichment thread
 

Thanks for the two links Nexogen. Now I understand. I'm wondering if some nurseries do something similar to speed up the growth process and get a fully matured and blooming plant ready for sale at a grocery store in less time it would take grown "naturally"?

Good link! I understood the CO2 a bit, but that helped explain it a bit more.

I particularly appreciated the point in the article about brewing next to your grow area to increase CO2 levels. I have five gallons fermenting next to my orchids right now!

I will use my other grow area in the back of the house as a control. Stay tuned for updates!

I thought most knew about cam plants so I didn't explain.
If you do a search you can find information.

But what I did learn all ready is if you grow indoors in a cold climate you already have elevated co2 concentrations during the cold months.
Co2 levels are raising everyday. Co2now.org

I checked levels outside my home, it was 450-460ppm
Depending on the time of day. (City)
Inside my home was 900-1000ppm with 2 adults and a 7 month old. (1200sq ft home no basement)
The room my phals are in is 12'X13' room, after a 30 min fast walk on a treadmill (in their also) with the door closed the values rises to 1400-1600 ppm. And slowly dissipated. With the door open levels drop to 900-1000ppm with in 30 min.
But now the levels are controlled with very little fluctuation.
Knowing that, I set my co2 at 1500ppm night because they have already been in higher concentrations. I vent the grow tent 1 hour after lights on for 10mins. That gets the co2 down to 500-550ppm. With the weather warming the windows are open and co2 was at outdoor levels.
I'm still trying to find more info on co2 acclamation in cam plants.

I looked around a bit more, and there are several studies of CO2 enrichment in Phals. Enrichment seems to have some beneficial effects.

Also, it is interesting that young leaves are more facultative CAM (C3+CAM), and older leaves are more CAM: Effect of Leaf and Plant Age, and Day/Night Temperature on Net CO2 Uptake in Phalaenopsis amabilis var. formosa

As expected, this study shows that when watered once a week, the dry plants (the day before watering) are more strongly CAM. After a day of irrigation, Phals uptake CO2 in the late afternoon, too. This study used up to 2000ppm, and the CO2 uptake rate seems to be linearly correlated with the concentration. Obviously, if RH is low, the effect of enrichment is small, which emphasizes the importance of air RH:
http://repository.aichi-edu.ac.jp/ds...ihashis001.pdf

CO2 uptake rate increases up to 80% in this study (with 950ppm): Irradiance, Temperature, and Carbon Dioxide Enrichment Affect Photosynthesis in Phalaenopsis Hybrids

Philipm, how long does a bottle of CO2 last in your set-up? For aquarium, I think my 5Lb bottle lasts for a year, but I guess that it will go much quicker with a grow tent.

I have a 20# bottle. My tent is only 56 cubic feet.
Regulator is set to .5cfh.
I used the co2 calculator.
CO2 Calculator - Greentrees Hydroponics
It said 350 hours At 10min
It's been running just over a month and the gauge hasn't moved. So a long time

I little off topic but found this interesting.
Experiment aims to steep rainforest in carbon dioxide : Nature News & Comment

Hello
I have a question for anyone that would like to answer.
What is the smallest/youngest phal species you had
that started growing a spike?
Also most leaves grown in a season?
Thanks

The time to flower depends on cultural environment. The temp is relatively low for me, so my phals don't grow quickly. But according to an expert of species Phal (the owner of ranwild.org), his P. parishii flowered 1 year after deflask (2 years of generation time: seed to seed).

I've never kept truck of when they make leaves. But among 30 or so species of Phals, my P. tetraspis 'C1', P. pulcherrima, P. violaceae mentawai seem to produce lots of leaves year around (maybe a new leaf every 1.5-3 months in the winter?). I get only 1-3 leaves per year for others like P. gigantea (P. cochlearis and P. javanica are also fairly slow for me).

Thank you Naoki.

I am doing a similar experiment. This all came about because I was arguing about why so many people lost their phals to root death less in a short time after purchase. My CO2 generator is very primitive at this point. Champaign yeast and sugar water. I plan on creating a better generator shortly. The phals are enclosed in a plastic tub now to keep the CO2 gas from wandering off. I am very interested in the dark CO 2 fixation, the diurnal acidity rythems, CAM and creating the correct modified xerophytic conditions. But also, the whole question of keeping orchids healthy and growing. Not a scientist either. I would love to compare notes and get in on the club.

---------- Post added at 06:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 AM ----------

What about the CO2 released by decaying biomass?

Here's a few photos of the growth over the last month.
Co2 is still set to 1500 ppm.
photo taken April 14th 2014
Phal cornu-cervi.

Photo taken today May 13th 2014
Phal cornu-cervi

Photo taken April 14th 2014
Phal lueddemanniana

Photo taken today May 13th 2014
Phal lueddemanniana

I'm glad your giving it a try. Any positive or negative results you may have please feel free to post them in this thread.
I do have a question for you thou. How do you know how much co2 your giving them?
I was surprised how little it took to raise the co2 in my grow tent just breathing in to it, 7-10 exhales and it was close to 1500ppm. I found that out after I got the co2 controler. You can pick up a co2 monitor for around $100 off ebay. The autopilot.

They look like that they are growing well. The newer leaves looks a bit greener than the older ones. Did you change the light, too?

Bravo, the plants look healthy.

Phillip M, good question. so far I have not seen any discussion about what happens if they get too much CO2. What they are getting now is negligable due to the primitive nature of my equipment at the moment. I'm sure without directed hoses and so on, much of the result attenuates into the atmosphere. I am thinking in terms of decaying biomass. I am definately studying plans and protocols, but my main purpose is to stop losing orchids, phals especially. I do not seem to have as much problem with other kinds.

Nexogen, thank you.

Optimist,
Their where a couple of studies if I recall on super elevated co2, they were 10,000 and think 50,000 ppm were used.
I'll try to see if I can find them.
Have you looked for information on decay and co2 production.

The lighting has been the same since I start growing them.
All the phals were bought this year. A few last year in December. Same with the lights. You can clearly see the difference of the growth of the previous owner and now.
It maybey lighting, co2 or combination of a few things.
I really don't know.

Photo take April 14th 2014
Phal hieroglyphica

Photo take today May 14th 2014

I also noticed on my phal borneensis
A larger bloom. It has had 4 blooms on one of the spikes.
This bloom was much lager then the prevous 3
1/4-3/8 larger.
I wish I had a photo of one of the first blooms.
Here's a photo of the newest. 1/6 shy of 2"

Generally, more biomass information seems to be generated by people who study alternative fuels.

I see, I guess that it is likely due to the difference from the previous owner's condition. hieroglyphitica doesn't seem to have difference in color. I was curious about this because there are some studies showing that plants acclimate to high CO2 environment after a while. I didn't know about it until someone in Slippertalk forum pointed it out, and I looked into it. Some species change the nitrogen allocation within chlorophylls, so I thought the color may change, too. Some studies show that the initial benefit of elevated CO2 can taper off. So it will be interesting to see how yours will do in a long term. These are studies in plants other than orchids.

Nice species Phal collection! Where did you get P. borneensis? I finally found one from LOC. I hope it is correctly ID'd (LOC people know well about Phals, so I'm optimistic).

Thank you.

My borneensis came from orchid web.
I also bought a phal from LOC. I really hope my id is correct as well. Only time will tell.

It's been about 4 months now since I started add co2.
Still getting excellent growth and lots of blooms. Nothing negative thus far. Still running the co2 at 1500ppm at night only.
Last month I decided to try and self pollinate a couple plants. So far they are doing good.
Phal sumatrana
Phal inscriptiosinensis

Phal sumatrana

Phal inscriptiosinensis