Petal Blight on Paph?
 

After reading someone else's post on petal blight, I'm now paranoid. LOL!

After I got my paph home, this discoloration to this side of the flower began. It seems to be progressing slowly. Since this is my first paph, for all I know, this could just be the flower fading, I have no idea what that looks like on a paph. If it's not... I'd like to know.

Thanks for your help!

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3769/1...5ee0096ce0.jpg

I am not sure what petal blight is. is it a disease of some kind??

How long have you had this in bloom?

I doubt this is a natural aging of the flower.
The drying and browning is happening in a usual manner and the rest of the flower is perfectly fine.

Usually, paph flowers will fade in color over time, then lose the shiny texture, then finally the ugly brown tone takes over all over gradually, then the whole flower just falls off.
I had one exception to this, my vini droped its flower last week while the flower still looked fresh. how strange!

Check the flower up close and see if there aren't any thrips or mites eating it up.
Also, how are the leaves? the stem itself??

I've never had this happen to any of my paphs.
I did have one paph blasting its bud, but it was due to sudden change of environment upsetting the bud.

By the way, it looks like Hsinying Alien, the cross of supersuk and raisin pie. Is it???

Yes it is. :) I have seen zero signs of insect activity on this plant. The leaves look good, there is one rust colored spot on one of the leaves... but now that I look at it again, I realize that this rust colored spot, is the same color as this discoloration on the flower. I'm thinking this must be some sort of fungal infection. The spike looks nice and healthy.

Petal Blight (Botrytis) hopefully this link works:

Ortho's All about Orchids - Elvin McDonald - Google Books

Oh, I know what Botrytis is. ;)
I have only seen it on phals and it looked like tiny dark spots rather than drying up. In sever case, the fungus can "eat up" and ruin the flowers, but you should still be able to see dark spots on those dry area to be sure it is Botrytis attack.
This is a fungus that thrive in humid and cool environment. How's your growing condition? At home, this is rarely a problem. but if it is botrytis, the best thing is to remove the affect flowers to keep the fungal spores from spreading all over.

The brown (or red brown) marks can be bruise or bacterial rot on paphs. If the marks are round, it is more likely to be rot than mechanical damage.
As long as it does not spread, it should be fine, but the best is to cut the affected leaf to eliminate the further possible spread as these things do come back persistently at times.
Try not to wet the leaves as much as possible.
The only time I wet my paphs are the large complex with long big leaves. I take them to the tub and soak them good. In the process, water gets everywhere, but I blow it off and dab with kitchen towel to remove all the water on the plant. then put them back to the growing area.

By the way, I just took a picture of a fading paph. This should give you a good idea as to what the naturally aging paph flower looks like.
The one on the left in the first picture is the same flower back in September and the second picture shows how it is going down today. :lol:

That browning in the center of the dorsal sepal in the second picture looks very similar to this discoloration that I'm seeing. It's just that it's so odd, that it's systematically working it's way from the left side of the flower, to the right. However, I was reading that paph blooms are easily damaged and this one came from TJs and was sent home in a plastic floral bag and this side of the bloom that is browning was pressed up against the bag in my car on the ride home.

Do you think that this is what's causing the damage to the bloom?

I don't have this paph in my usual growing space yet. I leave my new plants in the dining room or kitchen until their blooms drop, then they get repotted and go up to my office. It gets light from an east facing window, it sits about 3 feet away from the window. There is very little humidity in my house right now. It's been about 19 degrees here for several days, so my furnace is going practically non-stop.

I water this by soaking it in a cup of water when the top layer of the moss (yes, I plan to repot it in bark) gets dry. This works out to be about twice a week. When I go to water it on Saturday, I fertilize along with the rest of my orchids. I just watered it yesterday.

The rust spot has been there for a while. I didn't notice it when I brought the plant home, but when I went back and looked at the pics I took of it then, it does look like it was there. It's very tiny and seems to be about the same size it was then, so it definitely could be a water spot.

Edited to Add: I've had this paph since November 13th. It was in bloom when purchased.

Nope.
Notice how yours has dry browning happening on one section of the flower while the rest is perfectly fresh? It is not natural aging for sure.

Then look at my second picture. The whole flower lost its vibrant color and texture. Then the browning comes in all over while the flower is not dry at all.

Anyway, mechanical damage is possible, but these flowers are not that delicate, and the mechanical damage usually show up as short cut mark or irregular shape where the damage was done rather than the whole section of a flower drying up brown like that.
Was the flower totally fine when you first bought it? and is this getting worse? then it is definitely not mechanical damage.

These are made up of species from mainly tropical Asia, so you want to keep it warm. I wouldn't subject it to temperature under 60. They will not die but the plant will be negatively affected when kept too cool. Shoot for above 65 minimum at all times but 60 or even slightly lower won't kill it when kept dry if you have no options.

My apartment gets quite dry during the winter, but I do not run heater as my place gets as warm as summer time during the sunny day thanks to large windows, and even at night, it is hardly ever under 65 or 60. With this, lady slippers grow year around with short stop in the heat of summer.

During the winter, I do have either humidifier running or at least a large wet towel hanging which seems to help me breath better at night.

You might want to encase the plant with clear plastic bag with some wet kitchen towel around. leave the top open for vent. This may help, but I find these plants pretty sturdy.

They will show signs of life when spring retunrs anyway.

The spots on the leaves, check them every so often in case they increase. You never know.

When I first started to have paphs, I thought they are so clean and nice, but the more I have, the more issues I run into.

Any chance that one side of the plant got too hot, too cold, or too much light?

Ah ha! I see your point! I didn't notice before that my flower is drying out as this browning moves across!

The petal on the left side of the photo looked sort of wrinkled when I bought the plant, but there was no discoloration on the bloom like this.

The browning on this bloom is definitely growing. It started out as a little sliver on the left side of the dorsal sepal and is gradually moving toward the right side.

We have a programmable thermostat and one of our dogs has severe arthritis. The house does not go below 65 at night for her sake.

So, do you think the lack of humidity is the problem? I can fix that by moving it up to my grow space, which has a humidifier in it, but if this is fungal, I don't want to take it up there. The plants that are in my office are more sensitive to humidity and honestly... I have more money invested in them than I do in this paph (8$ at TJs. I'll just go up there and see if they have another one, before I decide to fight a fungal infection and risk my collection). I can come up with a humidity tray for this guy pretty easily tho.

It is spreading, then I would cut off the entire spike and throw away. really.
I mean it is being ruined anyway, and just in case it is something bad, you can only save it now you know.

Why don't you get a humidity reader? I use a cheap simple one, but works for me.

Usually, if you breathe fine without your nasal cavity and back of your throat being too try or even slightly painful, the humidity is above 40% and that is fine for both you and plants.

In the winter, many home may experience humidity much lower than 40%. you will definitely notice when you breathe. so whatever fix you try, it is only beneficial for you as well.
It is not just discomfort, but by being too dry, you can get sick more often. The mucous lining in the nasal cavity can only stay so moist, and when the air is too dry, it cannot function properly and things can get into your system more easily, which is one of the main reason people catch cold often in the winter time.

You have furnace going, so I suspect the humidity might be quite low.

It is more for you than the plant. The plant will not die due to low humidity. You might get sick badly before the demise of the plant. :lol:

petal blight is a warm weather disease and normally does not become severe until May. It's those muggy, misty, rainy days that all the petal blight fungus go berserk and rot all those flowers that you waited a whole year to see. Since it is at the height of autumn, your flower must have been wet and the fungi feasted on it. Since it is fungi=you need a fungicide spray. I usually do a mixture of liquid cinnamon extract and soap combination with tepid water....but this must be done when you see it start a discoloration but your picture shows almost half of the flower is infected.

I disagree.

I think you might have read wrong information somewhere on the net.

Botrytis that attacks orchid flowers do not thrive under warm condition. It strikes when it is too cool and the air is very humid, and of course, poor ventilation.

cinnamon or anything else helps once the damage is done. It is not fatal usually, but ugly spots will not go away. It is best to remove affect flowers as those spots continue to release spores in the air. Cinnamon (or anything else) has no effect on the spores. They are not active.

Again, I am not sure at all that your paph flower is attacked by Botrytis.

It sounds like, either way I go here, the best thing to do is remove the flower. I went to TJ's today, found a great paph that is a dead ringer for paph macabre contrasts, but no Paph Hsinying Alien. If this is something that is just threatening the bloom, but the plant is otherwise healthy, then I would rather sacrifice this flower to save the plant. I don't see paphs often, and contrary to what I said earlier, I've realized that I'm attached to it now. LOL!

You've developed a new taste. ;)
Watch out! hahaha

I HAVE had flowers that naturally age, and different parts of it collapse and turn brown....most commonly, the pouch will go first....others flowers fade, then drop off...and still others will looks fine and suddenly they are on the floor....all sorts of things happen when they age....some flowers last for months, others only a month or so....its just the nature of paphs to be different! wonderful plants tho...I would cut that blossom, and care for the plant as normal...I don't think you have any fungus or whatnot, so put it with the others and the humidifier...good luck!

I don't know why, but Tapatalk didn't show me your post! I didn't see it until just now, I'm sorry.

As far as too hot or too cold, no. It's nowhere near the window or a vent. Light, maybe, but it would have damaged the other side of the bloom, given how I've kept my paph placed on the table.

I'll cut the spike today. Anyone have any guidance for me on where to cut? This is my first paph, so I have no idea where to cut the spike on it.

An inch or so from the base. It won't re-grow anything from it. But you can cut it there and the rest will dry up.

Don't lose hope... sounds like you aren't... paphs can be a lot of fun! And perhaps you are learning from the experience of course.

I'm not losing hope, that's for sure! I was just going to get another paph and try again. I'm trying to keep in mind that this one came from Trader Joe's, which is, for all intents and purposes, a grocery store. I bought it because I had never seen a paph there before, and hey, for 8$ to find out if I can grow paphs? Honestly, how can you beat that for an experiment?

Paphs seem like they might be about my speed. I like fussing with my plants a bit, so watering more frequently would be good for me, but not so much that I have to mist daily just to keep a plant alive. I've got one bulbo and I've decided that I don't like the plant. I'll keep it until it blooms, if it blooms, and hopefully it will redeem itself, but for now, I just feel kind of bored with it. I love my dracula, but I do have to mist it daily, several times, to keep it moist enough and am gonna have to build a terrarium of some kind for it, because a humidifier in the grow space isn't enough in the winter, and this summer, I don't even want to imagine what the poor little thing is gonna go through. I just haven't had time to sit down and design my terrarium yet.

So, I'm thinking I think I might become a paph fanatic.

I definitely want to add two more to my collection (I did buy that purple one that I found at TJs. I couldn't leave it there to die. LOL!). There's a similar one to this, but with pink instead of purple and then a green maudiae type, to complete the set.

That's what I said... a couple hundred plants ago! :rofl:

Seriously though my oldest paph I have came from Trader Joes and it has a special place in my collection. I'm guessing yours came in Sphag, so just take that into consideration with your watering.

I do. I finally figured out what you meant when you say to judge when it needs watered by the weight of the pot. Even in spagh, with the heat running constantly, I've been watering it twice a week. The humidity in my house is low. I can feel when the humidity in my office is just right and I had to turn the humidifier up last week and have been filling it twice a day, instead of just once.

Thankfully, this pot has some styrofoam peanuts in the bottom of it, and I think up in the center of the pot as well, so that's helping things dry out in the middle. I let it dry out until the moss is just at that not quite crispy stage, then I water it.

I'm tempted to leave it in spagh when I repot.

It's a great medium when used correctly! It's awesome you are having fun with it and learning along the way.

I think the pot weight 'trick' is one of the most important in the book. I'm happy it helped you.

I do not cut spent spike on paphs. It is just my personal preference. I hate to see open "wounds" on any living thing, and I only cut something if there is rot or too many spots.

So back to paph flower stems, I basically don't do anything until they get so dry and crisp that I can just easily break them off and toss. This is usually many weeks after flowers drops.

I know some people do not like the look of spent stems standing there looking dead, but this is just me.

By the way, I picked up a beautiful paph (Hsinying Alien) at TJ while visiting California last month. I don't ever see paphs in NYC, so I thought it was very interesting. There were quite a few, although there were all either Hsinying Alien or Napa Valley&Makulii cross.
Anyway, I think it was only $8 as the pot was tiny, and the one I picked had the biggest flower of this hybrid I've ever seen, yet the plant was small. Not to mention the coloring was gorgeous.
It has a tiny new growths that is slowly recovering from all the stress it went through. I really hope it survives as I would love to see how the second blooming will turn out.

Go get some more paphs! :)
As is the case with most others, Hsinying Alien cross come out very different plant by plant. I had so many then tossed so many. I now have three, one of which is spiking for the second time. It is a small flower but very glossy and dark. Well, at least that's how the first bloom was.

How big is your plant? single growth?
I find that this cross is quite vigorous and has great potential to form a nice clump over time.

The flower is big for the size of the plant. It's bigger than I would expect it to be for a plant of this size. The plant is a single growth. I think it may have a second growth starting, but I have no way of knowing for sure. It has a small little dot of growth at the base that is green, but that could be a new root for all I know. It's in a 3 inch pot. I would say the leaf span is about 5 inches.

The leaves seem so thin to me compared to phals! Almost delicate, but I love the mottled foliage. It's what really attracted me to the plant. Phals without blooms are kinda boring, but I saw this and thought that I would like looking at it when it wasn't in bloom.

This is a pic of the plant when the bloom wasn't as ugly.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2858/1...76b5a1b422.jpg

And this is a pic of the paph I picked up at TJs the other night. It's a noid, but I loved the color. I couldn't pass it up.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3800/1...5ac46f6a8b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7446/1...15d277e15e.jpg

As different as they might look, I'm almost certain that this one is also of the same cross.
It seems Hsinying Alien might have been "over produced" in recent years and circulate the market.

The nursery will get a lot of seedlings and then by the time the plants all spike or bloom, all are sent out to the retail stores.

While vast majority of this cross will be coloratum (as in your first photo), some do bloom out almost vini.

By the way, yours do have pretty big flowers.
The two I kept, not counting the third one I bought from TJ in Cali recently which is gigantic sized flower, have average leaves and small flowers, but I really like the shape and colors.

It's odd that all the ones I tossed for ugly flowers had wonderful leaves. well, maybe that is fair in a way. lol

New growths are whitish green and point and quite flat.
New roots will come out round and rather fleshy. It is usually white or whitish yellow that quickly turn light tan or brown as they get bigger.

Once they get going, they can grow really really well.

Oh, and are they in moss? I bet they are. Mine was.
and it was almost bone dry. Actually a few others at the same store in Cali were all about to die of thirst. lol
Keep it warm and moist.

Yes, my paphs are in moss. The humidity is so low here, over the summer and winter too, that I think I will keep them in moss. I am gonna have to order a bag. I'm considering switching my phals to a mix with some moss in it and am using some of the cheap moss I bought at lowe's for putting on top of the bark and they still dry out way too fast.

How do you feel about those carousel pots from repotme? I was considering getting a couple of the smaller ones, because I can find large orchid pots easily, but small ones are hard to come by.

I haven't used them, but thought about trying them.
I think they will have excellent aeration of course, but things might get too dry for paphs to live in there unless you are in the wet climate. lol

I'm happy with good ol clay or plastic pots.
I prefer the clear and rigid plastic pots with lots of circular drainage holes at the bottom, but some plants get top heavy or grow in certain way that they must be placed in clay pots. Otherwise, all my plants will be in plastic pots.

I do have two multi-growth paphs in tall paph pot sold by repotme.
I like them, but I wish the plastic was rigid, but oh, well.

Which ones specifically are you talking about?

Repotme sell tall plastic pots for paphs. The product name is basically that.
They are imported from Germany, where many wonderful pots are made! :)

The pots come in three diferent size I believe. 4, 6, and 7.5. I have two 6.
terracotta color was the only option when I got them, but now black is also available I think. haven't checked their website for a while now. about time. :)

Big & Tall Plastic Pots

Ok, just checked and they do carry two colors now but the size come in 5 and 6 only. I swear they had more sizes. hmmm I wanted to repot my paphs to a larger ones. dang it! now I have to search forever looking for suitable pots for them as I don't want to divide them.

Just saw your update..

Anyway.

I use these for several plants and really like them:

Slotted Clear Orchid Pot - 5"

Oh, wow~ thank you for that link I love those pots!
I am not a fan of slotted plastic pots because the roots (all but especially the fine roots like oncidium type orchids) either grow out through the slits or get stuck, and by the time I have to repot them, I feel terrible ripping all the roots.

The way the bottom is made on that design is amazing! I'm all about great drainage and I am so going to buy them for single growths for now.

Thanks again!

Oh, and by the way, the ones I mentioned, they also have big drainage holes at the bottom. drains like crazy and I love it!

I'm actually not a repotme fan (for my own reasons) but I do think that pot is great. It's worth ordering. I've put some of my best plants into them. Good air flow, strong enough as a pot, amazing drainage as you point out. Good luck with them! I actually wish I could find exactly the same pots in different sizes. If you see them anywhere, please think of me and let me know.

Sure, of course.

By the way, what mix do you use for your paphs??

I use mostly bark and moss, but I have used paph mix (mostly made of CCH chips) from repotme, and I find it really great. That is actually about the only I buy from them. so issues so far.

Most are in Orchiata, a mix of the Classic and the Power, along with perlite and charcoal. And a dash of oyster shell.

I might change this up a bit next year, we will see. I have a few cu ft of Orchiata to play with.

I use Sphag too in some cases, depending on what I'm trying to do.

I have a few plants in CCH chips too - I got them from another user on here, and I'm leaving them in their pots as is for now. Sorta learning with it as an experiment.

I read how CCH can contain high salt level and presoaking and washing is advised to prevent root damage.

I stick to their stuff because I use it without any treatment on my part, and plants grow wonderfully in it.

I am thinking of adding oyster shell or dolomite, but haven't decided as I use "full spectrum" fertilizer with Ca.

Do you crush the oyster shell? Do you think it brings noticeable change in plant growth??

Sorry RandomGemini - appears we have hijacked your thread. Hopefully we are being helpful though!

I have heard the same about CHC but I haven't planted with them new so it hasn't come up.

Repotme does 'wash' their stuff and make it ready to use right out of the bag - for a premium. With the volume I use, I can't handle the markup. I pay about $11.50 for a cu ft of Orchiata. They charge $78.10 + a large shipping fee. So, I will wash it myself - even though Orchiata specifically does not need to be washed from the bag. Anyway. For small uses I'm sure it makes sense to others, just not for me. It's the same with buying fertilizer. I can do it myself (mixing) for a small fraction of the cost.

Now that you mention it, I do add 1/4 cup of dolomite per cu ft of mix. However, it's powder, so it just dissipates quickly I'm sure. I get the oyster shell pre-crushed as flakes (not powder) and with both these, I add it because "it makes me feel good". I don't have my own scientific study of the difference - but the best plants I get have both in their mix, so I copy that.

Petal Blight on Paph?
 

CHC most definitely needs to be pre washed before using. I have a 5 gal bucket that I use for that purpose. I fill the bucket with the CHC in it and let it soak for several hours. Then I drain, refill the bucket and repeat the process. I do this several times over the course of a couple of days. I'm probably a little hyper-vigilant about it but I haven't had any issues with salt. Like sphagnum, CHC is a great medium if used correctly. Jeremy, check out Cal West Orchid Supplies for pots and potting supplies. Shipping is faster and way cheaper than from the east coast.

To our OP RandomGemini, I do not think your plant in question has fungus or anything else wrong with it. That side of the flower may have gotten too cold on the way home, or it may just be an odd natural senescence. Hard to say. I'd keep it and see what it does next time.

I already have a 'relationship' with them! In fact they had a Black Friday sale so I stocked up on quite a few things. I still try to get the Orchiata in or near town though at a show or something, then I'm not paying shipping at all. But the folks at Cal West are quite awesome. Good customer service, quick, very fair shipping rates (actual rates) and a good selection of supplies.

For anyone else looking: http://www.calwesttropical.com/

I may try the CHC on some other plants. I remember you telling me how you hate to water and with as many as I have now, at times, I feel the same.

Not a problem at all! I'm keeping up with your posts and learning a lot. Had a question too.

What fertilizer do you guys use? I'm using better gro orchid plus, because it's what's available to me locally and I bought a bag of it when I got my first orchid, but I'm not seeing tons of growth with it. I expected my phals to go through a growing cycle at about this time of year, and the root and leaf growth just isn't what it was even a month ago and I also thought I would see some spikes start growing by about now too, and nada.

I've considered coconut husk chips for my paphs, because someone else here mentioned that she was trying them for paphs and was happy with the results.

My hubby went down and checked out our whole house humidifier today and we're going to call someone in the morning about it. It's not working, for whatever reason the humidity in our house should be a lot higher than it is, so I'll wait to decide on what I'm going to repot my paphs in until we get that fixed.

I use K-Lite as a fertilizer (you can get it from Ray) - The 2lb tub can be mixed up into a few gallons of concentrate and will probably last you a long time. I'd guess it would cost (by itself) about $20 with shipping. Well worth it in my opinion. I just bought the 25lb bag!

I also use KelpMax and MaxiCrop for seaweed root stimulants. They are not actually fertilizers - they are supplements. But to quote Tucker on here, "I can't imagine growing orchids without seaweed". At least I think that's what he said to me. Anyway at this point, that is my sentiment as well.

I'm currently using MSU. I also bought some K-Lite, but have not used it yet. I want to use up the MSU first. I have also used Kelp-Max and saw a significant improvement in root growth. The MSU does a fine job. K-Lite is a modified version of MSU. My Phals do most of their growing in the spring/summer months.

Thanks, good to know that this slow down is normal! I just had a bunch of root and leaf growth in late October and early November so I'm kind of bummed out to see everything slow to a crawl. I love seeing new growth.