Going Bonkers: Trouble with re-potting and root rot: Please Advise
 

Hey everyone. I seem to be having one issue that i can not seem to overcome. Please help me to figure out what I am doing wrong.
The story goes like this. I buy a new plant, it has some root rot. I cut off the bad roots soak it in a fungicide, Let it air dry for 24 hours then plant in potting mix that has soaked over night, wait 2 weeks to water, water thoroughly with a little seaweed, let drain, 2 weeks later I have to unpot again because the roots have rotted. Trim roots, soak in fungicide repot in a even smaller pot, 3 or 4 weeks later new roots and the plant starts a slow recovery.
these are all phal. orchids.

Now a little history of my growing conditions and the potting medium that I use.

I live in North Fl. in a very shaded area the plants receive about 1 hour morning sun and about 2 hours evening sun. No quite enough light because the leaves are a little dark. No where to move them though and they seem to love it once they get started and grow new roots. The humidity is very high most of the time. 55 to 60 daytime and 60 to 85 night. They sit on a covered concrete patio up on bakers racks to keep the air circulating under them. They have decent air flow and my healthy 4" pots need watered about every 5 days.
They are all in clear plastic slotted pots that just fit the roots. The potting mix I am using is fir bark, sponge rock, lava rock and leca.

I don't understand what is going on it is driving me nuts, it is like I have to do it twice to get it right and that is hard on the plants and me. I would love to figure out what is going on.

Gosh this is tough...is there absolutely no where else to put them? Maybe bacterial not fungal. Side question do you have these quarantined? Just 2 be safe?

How old or fresh is the medium?
Air flow/circulation?

Only other choice is to bring them in and put them under lights. Tried that for a short period of time when we had god awful rain and they did not seem to like it. They are much happier outside. In another month the leaves will start falling and they will get more light, And I am looking for a new place so top priority on the list is big windows with good light.
Yes I keep them separate. But it happens to almost any new one that I buy. I always use new fresh medium, new pots, a new razor blade for each plant and wear a fresh pair of gloves for each plant. I also wash my table down with beach after each. I figure I have to be doing something wrong because like I said once they get new roots they start growing great. And so far have not had one die this year. Just look pathetic for a while.

I don't know maybe it is the light or maybe the potting medium not being right.

I am not sure sounds like you are on the right track...do you get your plants from local vendors or order online?

Maybe its the fungicide maybe it is to strong. What type is it.

Are you potting into a pot just big enough for the root mass?

Kindrag23 might be right about the fungicide. Also how old is the fungicide??

How long are u letting the bleach on the table after spraying it??
Is it 100 present bleach or a 1:10 dilution?? Meaning 1 part bleach 9 parts water.

^ good thought about bleach I had not thought of that.

Thanks. ^_^

I thought of the bleach because in the lab we use a 1:10 bleach solution to clean our counter tops and work stations and let it set for 20 mins before wiping them off. That killed everything, bacteria, fungi, and whatever else is present on the counters. Except endospores. But that is a whole other kettle of fish there.

There are as many different opinions on how to grow Phals as there are growers, so here's what works for me.

I used to have similar issues that is roots dying rapidly after repotting.

I started doing a couple of things: when buying a Phal, I look for healthy, fat, silver colored roots poking through the media before I commit to buying one.

Between two evils, I prefer a dehydrated plant to the one that's been sitting in a wet moss. Dehydated Phals can be soaked and recover quickly. Those that sat in a wet moss usually end up rotting.

Within last two years I have also learned by trial and error that most old roots, no matter how healthy they are hate new environment.
So ....after I bring a new Phal home, I unpot and let it dry for at least 24 hrs. Then I attach it BARE FEET to the plastic pot and spray it once or twice a day for at least a month. No media!

If the roots are healthy and dry quickly, over a time I add a handful of coir or bark over the roots, so I don't have to mist as often.

Only after a month when the new roots start growing and old ones are no longer dying, it gets repotted.

I deep water new Phal only once in a while but mainly spray the roots and underside of the leaves with a seaweed solution.

I used to lose every other new Phal that I'd bring home, now it hardly ever happens.

This is just my personal practice. I hope its helpful somewhat.

Most of them have came from big box stores or grocery stores. I have some new ones i ordered online but am leery about repotting them till I get this figured out.

I sometimes use physan 20 other times organacide plant doctor always at the recommended strength. I have also not use either just peroxide and still had the same results.

---------- Post added at 10:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------

I use a fairly strong solution at least 1:10 if not higher. But do not let it sit anytime. I also put down a fresh newspaper for each plant and throw away the whole thing, then wipe down with bleach.
Good point, I will start letting the bleach sit for 10 min or more each time/

Thanks for that useful piece of advice.

---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 PM ----------

Great thanks for that info. I will try this with the new ones I just bought. They both have decent looking roots. They are 2 mini phals that were together in one pot that were planted plug and all then more moss stuffed in around them. Like you said They had healthy roots poking up and little rot when I got them cleaned up. I soaked them for a bit in physan 20 and they are now drying out. Tomorrow I will do as you say and put them in the pot with no media and see how that goes. It does seem like an adjustment issue with them. Few good Roots, no roots, fine new roots. I do have one question. one of them has a few roots that are green but flat, is that something to worry about they are firm?

Not an expert but I don't think the shape matters. As someone on the forum said - where's green, there's life, and where's life there's hope.

Good luck! :waving

Thanks Wild orchid, just wasn't sure about that one. So i will leave those roots be.

---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 PM ----------

I did read a care sheet a few days ago from a nursery i found online but I can't find it now. that said you should always repot an orchid in what in came in and if you wished to change it to a new media it should be done slowly over a few years. I believe what it said was if the orchid was grown in moss and you wanted to switch to bark with the first repotting you should only add about 1/4 bark to 3/4 moss, the next year go to 1/2 bark and 1/2 moss etc. This was talking about phals not sure if it applied to all orchids. has anyone else read on heard of this?

[QUOTE=Wild Orchid;606249]
Within last two years I have also learned by trial and error that most old roots, no matter how healthy they are hate new environment.
QUOTE]

Very true. As an example arieal roots that are potted tend to die off... the same is true for potted roots being unpotted. It is not unreasonable to assume that the roots get shocked and die off.
As far as the sulking plant issue is concerned. Every orchid that I have had mail ordered has sulked for a couple of months before growing. They are just adjusting to the new growing conditions. No amount of superthrive or KLN can force a plant to go against its inner clock so unfortunately you'll just have to wait for the plant to adjust. Just my :twocents:

Just a thought... but sometimes the roots are already going bad when you get them and nothing is going to stop that, they are actually further gone that they appear on the outside.

It's not always the case, but don't blame yourself if you start out with one already rotting :dunno:

Hi SHag42

This is what works for me, for many orchids, but especially Phals.

A new plant's roots & leaves get a quick inspection before purchase if possible (of course, this does not apply to mail/online purchases). As soon as it comes home, all growing medium that it is potted in gets thrown out. All dead or sickly roots are trimmed off with flame-sterilized tools (assuming you also have good roots). Rinse off the roots, inspect again for bugs, signs of disease, treat if needed.

Assuming all looks OK, I pot it up. For Phals, I use terra cotta pots only (the unglazed pot wicks excess moisture away, reduces the chance of overly wet root conditions and rot). I use coarse bark-based media for Phals, with some coarse charcoal mixed in. I pot the plant with DRY medium. I wait a day or 2 before watering in case any roots were bruised/cut and need to heal over (I have never found a short dry period to be harmful).

When you start watering, water thoroughly, but not too often. Run a lot of water through the medium, let it drain. Water again when the medium is just barely damp. A good monitor for moisture is a bamboo or wooden skewer inserted deep into the medium; it stays in the pot all the time, pull it out slightly when you think the plant needs water, if it is damp, wait a day. Until the plant seems to be growing new roots, keep it in a bit more shade than your other Phals.

I don't use fertilizer (or things like KLN or seaweed extract) until I see the plant actively growing on its own first.

This is what works for me. FWIW, I have not lost a Phal, new or old, in close to 10 years. My Phals have been outside all summer during the wettest year in history in my part of Georgia. All are growing strong, with healthy root systems.

root rot in phals
 

I cannot see that you are doing anything wrong at all, & so I feel that you are getting plants that are already declining. The shops are not remotely interested in cultivation of Phalaenopsis, only in selling a product. Always be cautious in the use of chemicals, as you seem to be now. perhaps you could try leaving one new purchase as it was when you bought it, but keep it in your good environment, with routine care as you maintain, & wait for it to become active BEFORE transplanting into new media. Just a suggestion.

And this could in fact be the case. Most of the plants I have bought have had a case of the rot. A few have not and have fared better with less root loss. I do have some that I ordered that appear to have decent roots but I have been afraid to pot them. Don't want to mess up a plant I spent more money on. Thanks alot RosieC for the input.

---------- Post added at 08:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 PM ----------

Hi Orchid Whisper

I did only use the terra cotta pots till I got root rot in some of them and joined this board and read about the benefits of using clear plastic pots. I drill lots of holes in those to give them more air.

When you say that you pot them dry have you soaked the bark and let it dry out or just used it straight out of the bag?

I have been waiting a week or two before watering but the medium was wet when I put it in.

I have been trying to use the skewer method. But a few times I think I have let them go to dry in fear of over watering.

Have been doing this although most of my area is shade which good be adding to the problem.

OK this makes sense now that I think about it.


I have one phal that is about 4 years old I think. It has always done really well for me till we had all the rain. then it got root rot and a fungus. The medium was old and worn out. It had been in the same pot and media that it came in. When I took it out most of the bark had turned to soil. I re-potted in a terra cotta pot trim off the bad leaves and roots and it is looking great now. No problems and has 3 beautiful blooms. I figured this one is just tough because it has been with me all this time in the same place and I have to say I put it through a lot.

Thank you so much for all this great advise. I will make some changes to my re-potting regime.

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

I think I will start holding off on the chemicals for a while it could be doing more damage than good.

I will have to try next time letting one stay as it is. They are just always in sopping tightly packed spag and I hate that stuff. sometimes for my minis I do use a little spag mixed in but I do not pack it tightly. :thanx:

phals with root rot
 

I was wondering if you ever use foliar feeding for your plants? I think it is a neglected method, which is unfortunate because it is effective, & when plants are in trouble, such as with root rot, it can do wonders as a pick up & grow treatment. I use it in the late afternoon, & aim to get the VERY fine spray on the underside of the leaves. That is where the stomata are most numerous, & they open at night. I was taught this by a grower whose rather tumbled - down greenhouse was permanently jammed with phals in spike. He used only organic feeds, especially seaweed extract. I can't recall ever detecting any unpleasant smell, because the mist of very dilute fertilizer was so light.

Regarding the medium, if it is a mix that contains coir or coconut husk chips, I soak it an rinse it thoroughly, then let it air dry.

Also, if the medium is a mix that contains fines or dust, I rinse it/dry it.

If the medium is more or less clean, no fine particles, I usually use it as-is.

I do mist with seaweed sometimes, but some people do not recommend it due to it causing fungus. I mist sometimes in the morning if it is going to be a hot day with just plain water but most of the time I do it after I get home from work which is about 5:30pm. Do you think I should do it later in the evening? It is getting dark now about 8:30pm. I have a small bottle that puts out a very fine mist.
Thanks for the advise.

---------- Post added at 09:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

Thank you for the reply. I use the better gro special blend. It makes a lot of sense to not put wet medium on a plant that is suffering from rot root. I have noticed when they are first repotted they do not use much water. I will try one with dry medium and see how it goes. thanks a bunch

I didn't read everything, but I did read most of what was said. Alot of it is trial and error and learning your water habits. Of course I'm speaking with the information you gave us, but this could apply to almost any beginner.

I live in Colorado, and I'm a classic fussy-er. I admit it lol It's been dry and hot here. So, with that knowledge here is what I do...

For me, what I do is get them out of that moss, trim any dead (only black, squishy roots) and repot in pre-soaked bark. I do not use any chemicals as the plant I bought hopefully has minimal to no signs of rot, at least bad enough to use any chemicals.

For me, the plastic pots just do NOT work. I don't know why. It may have something to do with my watering habits or my fussyness over wanting to check the roots all time. Plain terra-cotta pots from Home Depot are what I use and they do great.

Mine have always always had a 3-4 month period where they look like they're declining. The lower leaves get wrinkled, the roots may turn brown (but NOT squishy). After the few months I see new leaves coming and green roots poking out of the brown ones. But it does take a few months of wondering if it's doing ok.

For the aerial roots that dry out before the ones in the middle, I take a squirt bottle and just dribble water on the aerial ones that are silver. This way the middle can still dry out properly and the aerial ones think it's more humid than it is.

Again, I'm sorry if this has been repeated, but hopefully you can find your groove for you and your orchids. Some orchids take longer than others to bounce back, but for me I have to get it out of that moss or rot will occur. So I don't know about that whole, repotting slowly over the course of a couple years.

foliar feeding
 

I have never had a fungus problem which I could associate with foliar feeding - but neither can I totally discount it. As I mentioned the mist is very fine & it dries quickly enough to ensure that you will not have plants sitting wet all night - that would certainly invite fungal infection, especially if the moisture were to collect down into the centre growing point of the leaves.
The mist is directed at the underside of the leaves, & this I think is the important factor. Perhaps you can try it on a plant that needs a tonic, but is not that valuable to you (is there such an orchid?!) As I said, I haven't ever had any problems with foliar feeding, but one needs to dilute accordingly - weaker than root feeding.