Sedirea Thread
 

Starting this thread because I know I'm not alone in loving these plants but I'm also in good company with those who find the culture of these plants a bit of a moving target.

Under my care is the following:

Minmaru (2 plants)
Minmaru-shima (2 plants)
Daruma chabo (1 plant)
Standard Sedirea (1 plant)

All of my plants are grown in moss-- mounded using the traditional Japanese method for neofinetia.

I live off a well and have tested the water several times since moving on to this property and the water is remarkably clean. PPM pre-RO/DI unit is roughly 60 PPM, post RO the water tests at 1 PPM. The plants get the RO water.

Fertilizer is applied at most, once a week. I use SOLO and at 1/4 strength and it is sprayed onto the plants, never dunked. The plants don't fill up the pot so I see no reason to dunk the plant. Spraying it allows the fertilizer to run down the roots and they don't seem to be heavy feeders anyway.

I grow mine under lights, for now. T8s, specifically. Since they are to be grown a lot like neos in terms of temp and even light, I will need to figure out a new arrangement for their overwintering since they apparently enjoy cooler temps during the off season. I may put them in my solar for the winter-- plenty of light and it can get fairly chilly at night.

Issues:
Roots! They like to stall...a lot. And then randomly, I'll get roots that seem unstoppable. I've been unable to figure out any rhyme or reason for it. One minmaru-shima is ailing and has been transplanted to sh culture and is cared for rather intensively, while the other, which also has stalled roots, also has plenty of NEW, OLD and growing roots. The regular minmaru seem more vital with their roots and the standard even more so. In terms of vitality (general robustness of plants) it goes:
1. minmaru
2.chabo
3. standard
4. minmaru-shima

In terms of root vitality it goes:
1.standard
2.minmaru
3. chabo
4. minmaru-shima

The standard plant is grown in moss as the others and seems to love it-- so much so i find it hard to tuck the roots back into the pot from the bottom opening.

The other issue I have is the moss-- it will often stay too wet inside and dry out too fast on the outside, so i try to make the moss mounds as thin as I can to get even drying. It also grows algae really fast for me. I try to go easy on the fertilizer as much as possible but that only helps so much. I know algae isn't avoidable, but its still really annoying.

Humidity: I grow in a smaller space but have one heck of a humidifier-- self-built-- it has five ultrasonic heads that pump moisture into the "closet" where my plants live. I can keep it at anywhere from 20% to 90% using a limit switch.

Temp: 70 at night to 88 in the day-- still trying to find out away to cool the room without humidity rather dramatically fluctuating. The only way to change it now is to turn on the exhaust fan OR shorten the photo period.

Photo period: I run my lights at night (cheaper to run at night) and run them in the summer for a pretty long time-- I think it's like 14 hours. I have already begun to drop the photo period down in 30 min increments to 10 hours at the peak of winter. No idea if this does much good or not but it's worked for me in the past.

That's all for now. :)

always look at your moss for signs.... too much fertilizer will burn roots but it will kill the moss first starting with its fast decay....some of these plants will have hypersensitivity to water purity and fertilizer while the other plants are not affected at all....the ailing plants might be due to levels of fertilizer burning the roots....ease up on it ( limit it maybe twice a month= you need to feed it too ).....and use bottled water.

algae is a sign that you have proper humidity and temperature....it can be smelly and ugly but if it is not affecting the plant then let it thrive....some plants have a co-existence with other fungi and algae that forms around it= but just remember that bad fungi infestation can lead to the death of your orchid plant; you just have to be very observant.

Good info here, thanks, boys!

I've got my fusamaru under t5s for now with a 13 hour photoperiod to emulate outside conditions. Further away than the vandas. I have decided to just use distilled water for now. Hope I don't kill this little guy.

Do they like a winter rest?

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thread has been moved to the "Vanda Alliance - others" fourm

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I thought they changed it to Phalaenopsis.

I switched my one to S/H.

Has it been changed? Tho actually, I've never been postive which alliance these belonged to - I had thought it was Vanda ... :dunno:

How's that going? It seems like it'd be good because these sound like they enjoy cooler conditions, which sh would allow.


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I don't know either. Sorry for putting it here if this isn't where it fits. While it is strikingly similar to Phals I believe they still consider them vanda.


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Too early to tell. I just switched a few days ago after loosing a couple of beautiful leaves.

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

This isn't the place I saw the news but what came up when reality checking: New classifications

well, that will confuse us all nicely :p

You and Ryan had me questioning my memory. I'm going to keep referring to them as Sedirea japonica for a while, like I still call the other "Neo", since its the same higher authority that keep changing them.

You hard core orchid folks should be grateful for what's going on with orchids taxonomically! Since the lumpers are having their way all you have to remember is which of the boxes fit inside which other of the boxes you already have. In the fish world the splitters are in control, so we have a whole bunch of new boxes to remember!

I was confused about Sederia japonica BEFORE it was re-classified as Phalaenopsis japonica. But now that it is classified as a "phalaenopsis" the plant formerly known as Sederia has a more hardy culture than the more ubiquitos Phals--right? Also, how does the Phalaenops amibilis compare to the P. japonica? They look and seem to have the same culture as Sederia.

I have both of these plants: Phalaenopsis japonica and Phalaenopsis amabilis. I have been growing them like Vanda falcata-->high sphagnum moss, in Vanda falcata pots, brighter light (Catt light not Phal light).

Right now, in the height of Summer, they seem to be growing well. I'm anticipating that when Fall and Winter roll around, I'll treat them like I'm planning with Vanda falcata-->brighter light, less water, no fertilizer, cooler temperature.

Right?

I've been growing mine as a Phal for years so if I were you I'd find a spot and grow it like a normal Phal. It can handle higher light than the standard Phal but don't get crazy.


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Define "crazy". I think I might already be crazy since I bought 3 this week. :biggrin:

Crazy with light. I wouldn't give seds Catt or vanda light. High end of Phal light, yes.

As for your crazy, yeah there's no defining that.


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Ok ok ok stop me if you heard this one....three sedireas walk into a bar...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/24/ava8epaz.jpg


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Ryan, you now need to compartmentalize your travel box. This is for a tea ceremony set but you get the idea:
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/2-Japanese-ce...b7g~~60_57.JPG

These are beautiful. I think my favorite is the Chabo(?) in the black footed pot. Is that your pot Ryan? Each of these plants seem unique. No wonder you like them so much.

Ha that's a good idea. I don't see me taking more than one chid at a time though. Unless I take them to a show but I don't see that happening either.

Yes that black one is one of my pots. And yes I love my sedireas. I wish they came in more varieties. I'd get more. I want another Chabo. This one is lonely.

Do you have to shave for a tea ceremony? LOL...Jean

Phalaenopsis (Sedirea) japonica does not need as high of a humidity as you guys think they do.

They do just fine outdoors here in semi-arid Los Angeles County, all year round.

I know that "Pilot" grows in an area that is much higher in altitude than LA, and the air is often drier than it is here, but the issue of humidity is not quite as pressing as it would be with tropical Phals, generally speaking.

A moderate humidity of 50% - 60% is good enough.

The more I'm reading about "Pilot's" issues with roots stalling, the more I'm thinking it is a genetic problem, not necessarily something you can do anything about.

The "standard form" is the wild form. All the other ones are genetic mutations.

A good analogy would be goldfish.

Goldfish are mutated forms of carp. Goldfish will tend to have a variety of physiological problems compared to their "normal" counterparts, (aka the wild type/form), the carp. The swimbladder problem with goldfish where they will flip upside down and float belly up, is the result of the mutation of a stout body form.

Like I said, the stalling may be a result of the genetic mutation.

While I'm still not 100% sure about it, the details provided appear to be pointing in this direction.

I'm not terribly surprised that Sedirea japonica got absorbed into the genus Phalaenopsis. They look exactly like Phals vegetatively. In fact, when they are not in bloom, the wild forms are pretty indistinguishable from a tropical Phalaenopsis.

They also grow very much like a temperate Phal, as I've mentioned before.

They've never looked like anything I'd recognize as an Aerides vegetatively, (for those who weren't aware, yes, Sedirea is Aerides spelled backwards).

The only thing that vaguely resembles an Aerides are the flowers of Phalaenopsis (Sedirea) japonica.

... and changed my life forever...

Update on my minmaru shima that hates life, I placed it in sh media, though very high above any water line, and have misted it heavily once a day at the beginning of the photo period and while there is no immediate turn around in its health, it is now throwing a new leaf, and if it does the same thing as last time, new roots should follow. The remaining vestiges of roots it has seem to be green and healthy. It'll be odd growing this thing in sh if it works!

Two very nice plants on eBay.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/06/ruva8apa.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/06/e7a6yqe6.jpg

Pass on the pricy maru-leaves. My first sedirea is doing poorly.

once i moved to my new house. mine, (standard form) is now making smaller leaves than usual but is throwing roots non stop like crazy.

the plant is big enough for blooming, but it just sits there making leaves and roots.... haha.

i am quite sure the plant is receiving more light. might be the reason why the leaves are shorter?

i will post pics tomorrow.

good thread

Antonio.

I am very interested to see if this works for this plant.

Update: My minmaru shima has passed on-- and the second shima isn't doing all that well, either. My chabo is experiencing quick rot, too. I don't expect it to live.

I have a few theories working in my small brain as to why I'm losing these plants but am not yet ready to report out. For now, I'm removing all surviving seds out of moss and in to aquamat, rolled loosely around the roots of the plants and then tucked in to their pots. I can't do moss any more. I'm losing loved plants because this stuff and my inability to grow them this way. Aquamat seems to retain a decent humidity but not stay soaking wet... I dunno... this has me all confused and I'm not sure what to do but try to keep them fed but not wet and not dry. It's harder than you think!

My minmarus seem perfectly fine. some root loss on one of the minmarus but on this same plant, a keiki is forming. Maybe I stick to minmaru. :)

:tombstone: :(

I'm getting my orchid arse kicked over here!

Seds planted in aquamat

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/09/u4ujepe2.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/09/yhygeze6.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/09/utymyzuh.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/09/upu5eves.jpg


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Hey all--

I wrote to NWO about my seds-- my email and their informative response below:

So I've had basically sedirea die-off. I know, it sounds horrible (and it is!). I did really well with these plants for many months but it seems that when I moved the plants to a new grow area, I had major root loss, which sends the plant into general decline pretty quickly. I think part of the reason is that the conditions changed from what I was use to-- lower humidity in general being a main factor. in the new environment, I'm able to keep the humidity much higher and with less of a swing between day and night time humidity (temperature dependent means that during the photo period of my lights, temps hit 80-84F and then drop to 68-70 at night, but the humidity goes from maybe 65-70 during the day to a solid 75-80 at night-- not that huge of a swing all things consider, especially considering my altitude). This higher humidity I'm assuming has kept my moss wetter, longer.

So for ease of examining the situation:

Current conditions are:
1. Photoperiod runs for 12 hours
2. Humidity Day: 65-70 Night 75-85
3. Day temp 84 Night Temp 70
4. Grown in moss mounds, hollow centers
5. Water via heavy misting/pick up and weigh method
6. Light mist daily or every other day
7. 1/4 or less fertilizer once a week at most during growing season

Observations:
1. very dry moss on the surface, wet on the inside :(
2. Root rot on chabo and minmaru shima, minimal root rot on minmaru
3. Lower leaves begin rotting at base and fall off in succession
4. Any new roots stall and tips brown when they touch the moss or even sooner (maybe moss isn't the culprit if some roots stall before touching moss?)
5. Leaves wrinkling suggesting they aren't getting anything from the roots that remain


I've lost a minmaru shima already (an expensive loss!) and I have little hope for my next one. Chabo is in the same boat. Minmaru (standard green) seems more robust and while it has roots that stall too, it has more than actually keep growing. I have two minmaru and one is from Glenn and Ibelieve it is growing a keiki-- which could be good or it could be bad. good that it's healthy and is growing or bad that its failing and attempting to continue via keiki.

Steps I've taken to remedy the situation:
1. Removed ailing plants from moss
2. Removed as much rotting material as possible (this seems to not really helped)
3. Placed under auto misting system that delivers fine mist twice a day but not enough to soak the plant for long periods
4. Re-planted in aquamat-- a water retentive material that holds water similar to a sponge but remains open and airy-- best of all, it's inorganic and this isn't breaking down like moss!
5. Emailed new world orchids pleading for help.

Possible conclusions:
1. Plant sedirea high-- they like the air and the two plants I planted high are both my minmaru which both seem to be doing relatively well.
2. Moss just isn't ideal for my conditions- having a media that wicks and remains moist without remaining wet is needed-- firstraysorchids.com sells aquamat so I'm testing using this
3. Frequent watering seems to do better than less frequent but heavier watering-- while not sedirea, I have several phals that live under the misting system and they've done exceptionally well, but because of the way they're planted, they require frequent watering, but never "heavy" watering or watering in a media that remains wet for long. Perhaps seds would benefit from that more than getting watered once a week but soaking wet.

I have thought about soaking these plants in seaweed extract to jump start new leaf and root growth but haven't yet. I think I may do this tonight because honestly, what do I have to lose?

So that is the situation-- most dire for chabo and shima. I can't bare to lose any more plants. I should also say that I'm experiencing similar issues with my neos as well but neos seem to be much more tough!

Thoughts?

NWO Response:

Okay, the master is home, and he has read about your woes. I am reporting his diagnosis:

The good news: there is hope! The bad news: you're an overprotective parent who loves his orchids too much. In a word, your problem is over-watering. I think because the phals are more tolerant of the water, they're doing fine, but the fact that you're seeing the same problem in your neos tells us that FOR SURE it's an overwatering situation. Oh, and regarding the toughness of shima vs "plain" minmaru: the variegation is beautiful but puts the plants at a disadvantage because they have less chlorophyll for photosynthesis. Less p'synthesis, less reserve energy in the case of emergency :)

Glenn is also wondering what kind of moss you're using. He told me to let you know that I wrapped his bum leg in some New Zealand 5A moss and it grew right back! :) I think that the frequent fertilizing is over-mineralizing or acidifying your moss. Since the plants aren't taking it up (since they're not growing well), it's just sitting there in the moss. It could be burning the roots. We had too much water outside this summer so that we couldn't even fertilize or it would have waterlogged them even more. I know you know that orchids have minimal fertilizer needs, but I think even less than you're using right now. Try just once a month and only on plants that are growing well.

We grow our neos and sederias exactly the same: wrapped in 5A moss, no hollow center, just loosely wrapped. You may need to change out your moss because of the fertilizer build up. We water when the moss is almost to completely dry. These plants are epiphytes in nature, so they're used to drying out completely between waterings. If the surface is dry but it's moist inside, leave it be. We both agree that frequent misting is okay, but that's going to mean even less need for watering, especially if you have roots out of the moss where they can get that moisture. I checked our sederias today, and they are going nuts with root growth, even through the bottom of the pot (and therefore through the moss).

Our recommendations:
1. Repot in 5A New Zealand moss. Don't worry about the hollow center.
2. Water once a week, mist daily or every other day (this isn't necessary, but I'm sure they appreciate it).
3. Don't fertilize for a month or so. After that, if plants are growing well and you see new root growth, fertilize once a month at 1/4 strength.

I really think you'll see a big difference. Remember the general rule with orchids: benign neglect!
Here's a link to the Sederia culture sheet on our website, too: Sedirea japonica

Here's a picture from the website that shows all the Sederia children in the moss beds.



Try to hold back the love, Ryan, and I think you'll be happy with the results! Keep us posted, please.

Well it seems black rot can make quick work of a sedirea. I have treated this one with clearys. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/19/ty6ynage.jpg

You can see it crawling up the stem. It infects the lead node and the leaf falls off.


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Ryan, when did you get this plant?...Jean

Months ago.


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Sedirea Thread
 

Here is another Sederia japonica. While I was perusing a Neofinetia hybrid in the vendors' hall, MidAmerica Orchid show (10/19-20/13), I saw this plant at another vendor booth, they were packing up. This plant was set aside for some reason. I came over and asked the vendor if he would sell this plant to me. He seemed exasperated that he had another plant to pack so he sold it to me for $10.00. It wasn't until I got home that I realized it was in spike, hiding under the leaf. If you look to the other side of the plant, there is a really small spike peaking out of the leaf. At the plant's crown is a small leaf. It is loosing a leaf but it looks like it might be okay. It is in quarantine right now. I'm going to repot this in Aquamat, as you suggested in another thread.

It is growing in chunky medium size bark media. I lifted the leaf so you can see the spike.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/23/e7ymy9er.jpg

Ryan, I am having somewhat of the same problem with some of my smaller neos and actually one one that was a little larger also. Ended up taking them out of the moss and putting them in wooden baskets AFTER spraying with physan solution. They are still planted in moss but VERY loosely, just enough to keep a little moisture at the roots. They seem to be doing OK for the time being. Haven't lost any more leaves, knock on wood!
What is clearys? Something along the same line as physan?
Hope it all goes well with you....Jean