Frustrated with big Cattelya's
 

Have had a few big cats for going on 4 years now and am getting frustrated by the lack of flowering. They are very healthy and growing great, but after producing sheaths on new growth they are turning brown and dying.

I think I am moving them too often....I moved from GA to FL last summer and this year they went in my screened in patio with filtered sun all day. I have since moved them to hang under my oak trees to get them less direct sun

I fertilize once a week with 30-10-30, and like I said, they are all very healthy, new growths and new roots

I've attached a few photos to give you an idea of what I'm talking about

Thoughts?
Attachment 86129Attachment 86130Attachment 86131

You may be giving them too much nitrogen. Many cattleyas have a distinct growing season and a blooming season. I'm sure your 30-10-30 is fine when the orchid is growing but might be too much nitrogen in the fall and winter when the plant should bloom. How much of the 30-10-30 are you using per gallon? Also does your fertilizer contain calcium and magnesium?

could be a little too much shade too...my big cats bloom best when they are exposed to strong sunlight...the leaves get pale looking but man do they ever flower and grow!!...cats like the very hi canopy in the jungle, not the low shade....gl I hope they present you with many blossoms!

I think they were getting too much light before......no shade all day..only filtered by patio screen

Tucker ....here is the fert.......sorry it's 20-10 20...I use the recommended amt....

So cats aren't summer bloomers?

Attachment 86138

That's about 132 ppm nitrogen which should be fine. In October you should cut back to half that amount. Since you're growing outdoors where the plants get a lot of rain water I would also recommend a calcium/magnesium supplement if you don't mind spending the extra money. You can buy it at hydroponics stores or online. I use one called Magical at 1 teaspoon per gallon of water twice a month. It's best to use it by itself, not mixed with fertilizer. Aside from that, I don't know why they won't bloom. Good luck.

Thanks tucker....will give it a shot.....my wife keeps telling me just to quit worrying and leave them alone! Maybe she's on to something

Flower induction and flowering season depend on the species. Most Cattleya species flower only once a year, and induction is controlled by variation in daylength, variation in humidity and rain or variation in temperature.
After the new pbulb is finished, I would reduce watering and give a rest, so that the plant does not immediately start to thrive anew.
The background is that many orchids go through a vegetative and a generative phase. Try to clearly stop the vegetative phase at the end of the growth cycle.

Some cattleyas grow during the summer, finish, rest (no fertilizer), then a few months later, bloom. Sometimes the dried sheath fills up later with buds so don't remove those. I agree with adding calcium and magnesium. During the growing season, it helps with the growth. Good luck!

Hi Tucker, I just ordered MagiCal, eBay seller, $18.79/liter, which will last me quite some time, and free shipping, so it was not at all so expensive:-) Will try it and will see, my Cattleyas are not blooming also, and they are growing outside so maybe this will help:-))) Thanks for tip

Big catts need 3 or 4 pbulbs behind the new one to flower. If there is not enough energy stored in the mass they will throw blind sheaths. The pics lead me to believe there is enough light. Good color. Also there may be too much N as a ratio to PK. Just because the K is high doesn't mean the plant will switch from vegetative growth to flowering. High N keeps the plant in the vegetative mode. I have been changing the ratio when the pbulb is half matured and have had good results. The LC Issy I am showing here right now is a product of that scheme. It has not flowered on this division before. There always was lots of new pbulb growth but only blind sheaths. I switched the ratio in May when the pbulb was halfway to maturity. I also have some others I've experimented with and they now have big fat buds in the sheaths. Not scientific I know. But if you are giving good food and good quality light with good clean water, then something needs changing. Lower the N as a ratio to PK and see what happens. Remember that in nature the orchid grows pbulbs during the rainy season, initiates flowers when it is halfway to maturity and then when the rains stop, it flowers. :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: ;)

I live in Florida and have Cat's outside that bloom for me twice during the summer. (They are pretty big specimens) Believe me when I say that orchid culture changes from region to region. I started out in Omaha Nebraska, moved to Alabama and then again to Central Florida. Each time, I've had to adapt to the conditions of the region.

Since Central Florida is obviously warmer, I've had to feed more. I feed, during active growth, at 75 ppm. Personally, if you're following the package instructions, I think you're giving too much Nitrogen. I'm feeding mine 20-20-20 which comes out to 1/3 tsp per gallon. I supplement with Mag Sulfate (Epsom Salts) once a month, mixing it in with the fertilizer. Also give my fellas a feeding of SeaWeed once a month as well. (They REALLY like that) Sometimes I alternate that with KLN or Superthrive. When there is no active growth, I feed less. Because the climate is so humid, I avoid Sphagnum Moss like the plague! Just make sure you repot your babies when they need it. Once every year or two.

I too think yours are getting enough sun so hang in there and you'll have blooms in no time! When you get them, we'd SURE like to see them! (We get all excited about stuff like that!)

I have 18 nos. of Cattleya now. And form 2009-2011 they had not blooms. I used NPK- 19:19:19 and 30:10:10 at that period and I shifted them from my orchid house to out door different places and several times. I changed the condition of light from shade to open place in direct sun light. During those changes I lost some pbulbs and created some sun burn in leaf. After all those bad experiments from the beginning of 2012 I positioned all of my Cattleyas a bright sunny place under 40% green shade net where the plants get half day sunlight. After that I used NPK 30:10:10 and sometimes 19:19:19 , Yes I agree with James mickelso about switched the ratio of NPK. When the new pbulbs were half way to maturity I used NPK 13:27:27 or 08:25:25 with micro nutrients. And last of all the result comes out. From May 2012 they bloom several times. So this is my story and here are some photographs of my cattleyas.

Patio screen can be too much of shade, if you are talking about the common kind that appear almost black.

Then again, if the plant makes at least empty sheaths, it is ready to bloom. Something is off maybe like too much fertilizer.

Otherwise, it does look really good.

I hope it flowers for you.

one other thing
some bloom from green sheaths, while others might bloom from dry / brown / "dead" sheaths.

r

I grow all my cattleyas under patio or pool screen also. The standard charcoal colored fiberglass screen is 25% shade, or 75% light. My cattleyas bloom very well under those light conditions here in Florida. It's not too much light for them but they'll grow and flower with a little less light, down to about 60% light if you feel more comfortable with that. Cattleyas grown under patio/pool screen will be a light green color and bloom well. Grown with less light they'll be a darker green but bloom well down to about 60% light in Florida.

Way too much potassium, and overall fertilizer concentration is too high. They need calcium and magnesium, and less of everything else.

Guys, I see some yellow on the leaves in the set of pics. Is that due to too much light/sun?

---------- Post added at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 PM ----------

Sorry, could someone explain this?
Thank you

The yellow on a couple of leaves looks like older leaves that are dying off. It's pretty normal to occasionally have an old leaf turn yellow and fall off.

You need to check you root health. If you have good root health, 50% shade cloth(under full sun), good humidity, and frequent waterings. You'll find that a very small amount of complete fertilizer is needed(preferably K-Lite) for your plants to bloom. I use something in the range of 15-20 ppm N every watering and going lower. My growth is just as big or bigger then when i used 125 ppm N. Plants that size need no media in the pots in my opinion. In my two cents.... I would put them under a tree or patio that has strong dapple lighting, remove the media and water 4-5 times per week. Then when it starts to get cold out reduce to 1-2x per week. I don't water in the winter because it rains about once a week.

Tucker....

I might have moved them into full sun under screen too fast...moving from GA to FL...and then actually moving their location on my patio a few times. Their leaves turned almost a yellow shade....this is why I thought it was too much sun under patio screen.

What do you think about the fert mixture...too much with every watering?

Yes, too much fert with every watering. Use 1/4 as much, and change the composition to much lower K. Also add calcium and magnesium. If you want a single product, either K-Lite or Dyna-Gro Grow are good. They both have less K than N and P, and both contain Cal and Mag.

I cant read any bad advice given. I can add that the most important thing I have recently discovered is being consistent with your culture. They need to settle down and be comfortable and moving around so much could very well have affected the internal clocks.
I have some older catts BIG ones that were actually not frustrating me but ticking me off that the sheaths were not budding. They had been moved several times and in all kinds of odd settings. Now that they have settled down in the heat and 70% shade morning till night for 3 months now almost all them old non bloomers are sheathed up. Ones that had bloomed this year are sheathing up again for round 2. I moved them outside from being in a cold dark garage for roughly 2 months.
Just keep it simple and easy for yourself. KISS..Keep it simple and stupid works for me
I Water them when they are dry.
I mist the leaves lightly a few times a day with the heat.
I Fertilize weakly weekly with peters cal mag.
I have them under 70% shade cloth.
I have lots of frogs and lizards combined with lady bugs and mantis's for pest control. I did treat the orchids initially with Orthene Fire Ant killer when I moved them into my hothouse. 1 tbsp per gallon used as a foliar spray.
I leave them in the pots they came in and NOT be in any hurry to re-pot them. Unless they really need it I leave them alone.
Dont get so tekky with them bec whats wrong is basically simple consistent culture.
Keep me in mind in the winter and next spring to see if My Simple and Stupid worked when it comes time for all of us to start posting fall and winter bloomers. And good luck you will be okey :bowing

One thing Ill add is that you just can take a plant that been in shady conditions and throw it under bright light. You need to gradually introduce more light. You'll must likely burn the plant if not then you'll shock it for a little while.

I agree that supplementing with Ca and Mg is good. Here is an inexpensive source. Ca - purchase gypsum, about 1 teaspoon will dissolve per gallon of water; it will dissolve quite slowly (may take a day or 2). You can buy Epsoma brand, or similar, at many garden stores, especially those catering to organic gardeners. You can also use the pelleted gypsum meant for lawns (decant and use the liquid, which will turn brown; discard the organic residue, which is the pellet binder). Also, plaster of Paris is nothing but gypsum with some water driven off by heating - you can use that also, dissolved first in water (I know, sounds freaky; Plaster has a long history of agricultural use; ).

For Mg, Epsom salts are a good, cheap source. They are available in any pharmacy, very cheap. Be sure to use the ones without additives; some are scented, etc., I'd avoid those.

[edited: I had said "pelleted lime" when I meant "pelleted gypsum", sorry, coffee has not kicked in yet. Also, if trying the plaster, it must be plaster of Paris, not lime plaster]

I use Peters Excel Cal-Mag. 15 5 15 7 3. Hard to find in small quantities but its all in one and worth the searching. ;)

Calcium and Magnesium is always good adding it to your generalized fertilizers as off the shelf they dont come with these ingredients and your orchids do need them.

If the fert has it in it do you need to add more?

No. If you regularly use a fertilizer that has calcium and magnesium in it, then you don't need to add a supplement.

Thank you so much. I am really trying to get a handle on this all.

I have just re -read all the posts. They give a lot of useful hints. Cattleyas not flowering is a problem that I never had with estimatad 200 Cats in my greenhouse, nor have I even heard about it from my friends around. I assume it is because the variation and changes of the seasons are really rough here, and for me as a grower one of the foremost tasks is to equalize the harsh changes.
That is exactly when HighSeas says that orchid culture changes from region to region.
For the flower induction of some Cattleyas more or less uniform conditions ( in India and eventually Florida) might be a problem that calls for a specific solution ( as the recommended shifting of fertilizer is).
It is known that Cattleya hybrids made in Taiwan or Hawaii for example might eventually not develop their full potential here in Central Europe.
And in general cultural advices given by one grower cannot simply be copied in other climatic areas or other greenhouse conditions. But despite of that they are excellent for my own considerations.

Did you try to induce a "physical stress" to the plant? Stop watering the plant for a week or 2. Then "pumb" it with water and fertilizer. The logic behind: Cats often come from the region where there are only 2 season: the dry and rainy ones. By "water starving", you simulate physical stress during the dry season which may stimulate the bud formation within the sheath. My 2 cents

Yea, I've had that work on Phals, (don't grow many Catt types) root-growth-wise, was out of town for longer than planned, and they went w/o water for a lot longer than normal... When I got back, they all had new roots growing (including some Lowes "rescues" that didn't have many good roots). So, it would make sense that with Catts, and their wet/dry seasons, that the neglect would wake them up. :shock: :evil: :biggrin: